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Switch to Forum Live View Hitler's all gay army is the reason the 'right' don't want "Don't Ask; Don't Tell" repealed
4 years ago  ::  May 30, 2010 - 11:08AM #41
REteach
Posts: 14,590

For Republicans to claim that they are pro-US, anti-terror, and that Obama is the soft one while they eject or forbid from enlisting needed members of the military, is hypocrisy at its worst.  They know for a fact, because the NATO countries with gays openly in the military are doing just fine, that repealing DADT is not going to cause problems.  But instead they pander to hatred, bigotry and prejudice.  They ought to just join the Taliban instead of fighting them and openly initiate the Sharia type laws desired by the religious right.

I know you believe you understand what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize what you heard was not what I meant...
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4 years ago  ::  May 30, 2010 - 1:00PM #42
mytmouse57
Posts: 9,782

May 30, 2010 -- 10:56AM, rabello wrote:


It goes without saying that the label "it's a sin" is one of the accusations used to deny civil rights to GLBT Americans, so if one thinks it's ok for "sinners" to serve in the military, or teach the nation's children, or nurse the nation's sick in the hospital, and any other role where a "sinner" has interface with the public, that person should be insightful enough to keep their opinions about what's a "sin" and who's a "sinner" to themselves.   Religiosity, afterall, is a private matter.





That's silly.


Since we're all, according to religous teachings, sinners, then we would have to ban everybody from everything and take away everybody's rights-- if, indeed, people were trying to argue that it's okay to deny rights based upon sin.


Religion also clearly teaching to focus on one's own sin, and not the sins of others. So, of course one should keep their opinons about sin to themselves...that's written right into the text, for heaven's sake. (no pun intended.)


So, ultimatley, I don't see what the big deal is over the "sin" thing.

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4 years ago  ::  May 30, 2010 - 1:02PM #43
mytmouse57
Posts: 9,782

May 30, 2010 -- 11:08AM, REteach wrote:


For Republicans to claim that they are pro-US, anti-terror, and that Obama is the soft one while they eject or forbid from enlisting needed members of the military, is hypocrisy at its worst.  They know for a fact, because the NATO countries with gays openly in the military are doing just fine, that repealing DADT is not going to cause problems.  But instead they pander to hatred, bigotry and prejudice.  They ought to just join the Taliban instead of fighting them and openly initiate the Sharia type laws desired by the religious right.





Well, that might be taking it a little too far. (GOP joining the Taliban and all...)


But anyway, you do bring up a valid point. All the NATO countries -- which have military systems very similar to ours, have gays openly serving with absolutely no problems.


That, alone, should be proof enough to end any arguments to the contrary.

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4 years ago  ::  May 30, 2010 - 1:18PM #44
Ken
Posts: 33,859

May 30, 2010 -- 1:00PM, mytmouse57 wrote:

Since we're all, according to religous teachings, sinners, then we would have to ban everybody from everything and take away everybody's rights-- if, indeed, people were trying to argue that it's okay to deny rights based upon sin.


Religion also clearly teaching to focus on one's own sin, and not the sins of others. So, of course one should keep their opinons about sin to themselves...that's written right into the text, for heaven's sake. (no pun intended.)



It might be a good idea to avoid sweeping generalizations about "religion." Not all religions claim that we're all sinners or even have the concept of sin. It's pretty much an Abrahamic specialty.

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4 years ago  ::  May 30, 2010 - 1:24PM #45
JohnQ
Posts: 5,638

May 30, 2010 -- 11:04AM, REteach wrote:

Jesus said to worry about your own planks.  So acknowledge your own premarital sex, drunkeness, pride, etc.  When you start trying to point out the specks of others with planks in your own eyes, you cease to be a follower of Christ.  Funny how hard it is to figure that out, isn't it?



Well it might be funny if those that for whatever reason do not figure it out were not causing some much suffering, angst, and even suicide.


________________________________________________________________________
Edited to clarify who said what
Moderated by Merope on May 31, 2010 - 04:32AM
Peace!                 
------

Christian LIES wed Christian HATE......Begot a child....it’s named Prop 8! 

Supreme Court let it stand.....which means we can vote away the rights of others in our land.

Sad as that may be...it hurts all of us.....not just me.
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4 years ago  ::  May 30, 2010 - 1:29PM #46
rabello
Posts: 21,319

May 30, 2010 -- 1:00PM, mytmouse57 wrote:



That's silly.


Since we're all, according to religous teachings, sinners, then we would have to ban everybody from everything and take away everybody's rights-- if, indeed, people were trying to argue that it's okay to deny rights based upon sin.


Religion also clearly teaching to focus on one's own sin, and not the sins of others. So, of course one should keep their opinons about sin to themselves...that's written right into the text, for heaven's sake. (no pun intended.)


So, ultimatley, I don't see what the big deal is over the "sin" thing.





I would say that's because you don't have sympathy for GLBT American's fight for their rights, based on what you've posted.   If I am wrong about your lack of sympathy, my apologies.    The ony people who are labelled as sinners before they do anything at all that justifies the accusation are GLBT Americans, which, of course, justifies the exclusion that denies them the very same rights a heterosexual philander already gets to enjoy without the label/accusation.


It is why "Hate the Sin/Love the Sinner" is nothing more than a meaningless, empty cliche.


To be told "Hey, I'm a sinner because of what I do, but I judge you to be a sinner because of whom you are" is pretty deplorable way of thinking.

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4 years ago  ::  May 30, 2010 - 1:52PM #47
mainecaptain
Posts: 21,783

May 30, 2010 -- 1:18PM, Ken wrote:


May 30, 2010 -- 1:00PM, mytmouse57 wrote:

Since we're all, according to religous teachings, sinners, then we would have to ban everybody from everything and take away everybody's rights-- if, indeed, people were trying to argue that it's okay to deny rights based upon sin.


Religion also clearly teaching to focus on one's own sin, and not the sins of others. So, of course one should keep their opinons about sin to themselves...that's written right into the text, for heaven's sake. (no pun intended.)



It might be a good idea to avoid sweeping generalizations about "religion." Not all religions claim that we're all sinners or even have the concept of sin. It's pretty much an Abrahamic specialty.




Very true. My faith has no sinners.

A tyrant must put on the appearance of uncommon devotion to religion. Subjects are less apprehensive of illegal treatment from a ruler whom they consider god-fearing and pious. On the other hand, they do less easily move against him, believing that he has the gods on his side. Aristotle
Never discourage anyone...who continually makes progress, no matter how slow. Plato..
"A life is not important except in the impact it has on other lives" Jackie Robinson
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4 years ago  ::  May 30, 2010 - 8:33PM #48
Sirronrex
Posts: 2,675

May 30, 2010 -- 1:29PM, rabello wrote:

To be told "Hey, I'm a sinner because of what I do, but I judge you to be a sinner because of whom you are" is pretty deplorable way of thinking.





This is the aspect many are obviouosly not interested in understanding at all. They believe homosexuality is limited to actions. They don't comprehend that sexuality is part of the make-up of one's being.


 

Moderated by Mlyons619 on May 30, 2010 - 08:53PM

I've been on a journey to nowhere...
and know that's the best place to be...
now...here...




If my faith isn't leading me inward, then my faith is leading me astray.

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4 years ago  ::  May 31, 2010 - 2:08AM #49
hyoka
Posts: 277

May 30, 2010 -- 11:08AM, REteach wrote:


For Republicans to claim that they are pro-US, anti-terror, and that Obama is the soft one while they eject or forbid from enlisting needed members of the military, is hypocrisy at its worst.  They know for a fact, because the NATO countries with gays openly in the military are doing just fine, that repealing DADT is not going to cause problems. 






I’ve wondered about that myself and it makes since unless there is some other factor in the American Armed Forces that other NATO armies don’t have to deal with.


Maybe I'm having a paranoid moment but I wonder if it could  be ....dum dee dum dum... 'The Religious Reich’ ?


  This may be as wacko as the ‘Hitler All Gay Army’ thang but I gotta wonder if the “Dominionist Christian” influence could cause problems with repealing DADT that they’re playing down . Could it be that the ‘Religious Reich’ is so powerful in our military that they are a real force to be reckoned with and Obama is treading softly till he can diffuse the power that they built up under Bush ?


I’m not usually real big on conspiracy theories and I’m not gonna jump on any ‘Purge the Military of Christian Fanatics Bandwagon’ but I’m curious about what folks think about the possibility that Christian Dominionists are in control of our armed forces or at least way to influential and ‘crossing them‘ could present a real  threat to our security .


 



Can’t vouch for the credibility of these articles but they present the idea.


(sorry, I’m not sure I can do the ‘link’ thing so if I screw it up any help will be appreciated)


  



"A military watchdog group is asking the Defense Department to investigate whether seven Army and Air Force officers violated regulations by appearing in uniform in a promotional video for an evangelical Christian organization. In the video, much of which was filmed inside the Pentagon, four generals and three colonels praise the Christian Embassy  , a group that evangelizes among military leaders, politicians and diplomats in Washington. Some of the officers describe their efforts to spread their faith .... "


   crooksandliars.com/2006/12/11/military-c...



  www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/ar...   




 



"There are four specific stenches that are attended to Dominionist Christians, particularly in the military. It’s much like walking into a ditch, or in my native New Mexico we would call it an arroyo, on a hot summer day, and walking upon the diseased corpses of 10,000 swine, and having that malodorous stench invade your nose. The first of the four stenches is virulent anti-Semitism. Virulent. Second, virulent homophobia. The third is virulent misogyny, basically the idea that women should be consigned to collecting food, preparing food, serving food, cleaning up after meals, spreading their legs, getting pregnant, and raising children. The last is the massive subordination of flawed man—you know, when humans pop out of their mothers’ wombs they are of course bearing Original Sin—so therefore, the massive subordination of man’s law, by which they mean the Constitution, to this weaponized Gospel of Jesus Christ. "


www.yuricareport.com/ChurchState/Religio...  

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4 years ago  ::  May 31, 2010 - 10:00AM #50
mytmouse57
Posts: 9,782

May 30, 2010 -- 1:18PM, Ken wrote:


May 30, 2010 -- 1:00PM, mytmouse57 wrote:

Since we're all, according to religous teachings, sinners, then we would have to ban everybody from everything and take away everybody's rights-- if, indeed, people were trying to argue that it's okay to deny rights based upon sin.


Religion also clearly teaching to focus on one's own sin, and not the sins of others. So, of course one should keep their opinons about sin to themselves...that's written right into the text, for heaven's sake. (no pun intended.)



It might be a good idea to avoid sweeping generalizations about "religion." Not all religions claim that we're all sinners or even have the concept of sin. It's pretty much an Abrahamic specialty.





Because the poster I was responding to was talking in Christian terms, I took it as an understood given that "religion" in that sense was the Christian religion.


My religion does have "sin," but the concept would be different than the "sin" concept in most Christian religions. It would be more along the lines of imperfection, or, perhaps, base urges, selfishness, that sort of thing.

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