Post Reply
Page 1 of 4  •  1 2 3 4 Next
5 years ago  ::  Mar 04, 2010 - 6:49AM #1
Lutz
Posts: 167

My girlfriend was wondering why it is that so many American "Christians" feel compelled to religiously delight in specifically targeting gays as a group for abuse with expensive and well organized political campaigns and special lobbying of public officials to say bad things about gays and lesbians and their families and kids.  Other spiritual groups and religious denominations don't appear to us to especially target gays for abuse.  Why is that? My girlfriend usually attends a Buddhist meditation group every week.  I go on occasion to a Quaker Society meeting, which is also more of a meditation.  


Why is American "Christian" spirituality so tied into their compulsion to specifically revile, denigrate and generally bad mouth gays and lesbians? Is it Four of Their 10 Commandments:


Thou Shalt Revile Gays


Thou Shalt Denigrate Lesbians


Thou Shalt Bad Mouth Gay Kids


Thou Shalt Criticize Strongly Gay Families


Is Their God really that mad at gay marriage to cause this vigorous, united effort at Group Libel?


Should we expect The Fundamentalist God to reign down Fire & Brimstone next week-end on Washington, D.C., which just legalized gay marriage?


 


 


 


 

Quick Reply
Cancel
5 years ago  ::  Mar 04, 2010 - 7:56AM #2
Tudobem
Posts: 173

That's so unfair, Lutz!


Their 5th Commandment clearly states:


Thou Shalt Judge/Condemn Gay Marriage just as Ye Shall Ignore Non-biblical Straight Divorce, for it is written that gays are always bad; while straights are always good... even when they sin.

Quick Reply
Cancel
5 years ago  ::  Mar 04, 2010 - 8:17AM #3
MarcosRamos
Posts: 171

from a recovering self-avowed homophobe, I'd say it's cuz their biblical exegesis is idiotic and they're political scammers, DUH!


or maybe they just don't much care for gays since they never give them their respectful name: Gays and Lesbians, it's always The HomoSexual Agenda is coming for your children, Be Ye Afraid, Be Verily Afraid cuz homosexuality caused the economic crisis, Washington political corruption and worse (fill in the blank bad thing).

Quick Reply
Cancel
5 years ago  ::  Mar 04, 2010 - 8:30AM #4
REteach
Posts: 14,764

I suspect it is because blacks and women have already won legal protection, so it is harder to target them. 

I know you believe you understand what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize what you heard was not what I meant...
Quick Reply
Cancel
5 years ago  ::  Mar 04, 2010 - 9:12AM #5
IreneAdler
Posts: 2,849

I wonder if the “religious delight” (good term) is from somehow expecting that one will get rewarded for coercing others to take up their beliefs.  Personally, I would find it a very uncomfortable thing, bringing to someone’s attention that their actions are “sins.” Don’t you?  Certainly wouldn’t take any delight in doing so. Not my place, either.


 Kinda like earning ‘points’ for heaven if one does what one believes God wants- everyone marching to the same set of rules/beliefs.  Course, the rules/beliefs are the ones they believe in; not those a more liberal interpretation would lay out. How convenient!  Heaven forfend that we allow each individual the freedom to live his/her life according to his/her own beliefs – just as any “Christian” would insist is his/her right to do. 


 I can almost hear it: “Okay God, I did Your Work, I really did.  Told those gay folks what they were doing wrong and explained their punishment should they fail to heed me. I even ignored certain other of your laws- but only because I genuinely loved gay people. That can’t be the wrong thing to do - right?  I mean, I only had their best interests at heart. Took me a lot of flack for it too.  Now, what do I get for doing this?  Gimme, gimme, gimme!”


 Some Muslim folks have the belief that one is rewarded in heaven with 70 virgins if they do Allah’s work here on Earth.  But, as a joke I’d heard long ago goes, this is a mis-translation- not virgins, but raisins.  Gonna be rewarded with 70 raisins.  Only virgin is the pic of the Sunmaid gal on the box containing the raisins. Thinking something even more disappointing to this awaits those who partake in this ugliness of gay hating.


 Irene.

Quick Reply
Cancel
5 years ago  ::  Mar 04, 2010 - 12:45PM #6
hyoka
Posts: 277


Why target gays ?


Because Gays are the perfect target for religious bullies.


Bullies seem to need someone to feel better than or more powerful than in order to feel good about themselves.


Bullies are basically cowards so they go after folks who are less powerful , who they know they can beat up and who they know they can get away with pushing around.


Take a look at the schoolyard bully . He’s not gonna go after kids that are bigger or stronger than him cuz he knows he’ll get his ass kicked and he’s not gonna go after the popular kids cuz he knows that even if he can beat them up their friends will help them.


It’s the weaker less popular kids that the bully goes after and lets face it folks those weaker , unpopular kids are often perceived to be gay.


In the adult world the religious bullies aren’t gonna go after “sinners” such as folks who divorce and remarry. There’s to many of them and those ’sinners’ would kick their asses in the political arena . They’re gonna go after the less powerful ‘sinners‘ like “The Pervo, Gays” cuz we really aren’t very politically powerful on our own and we are still looked down on by much of society. We are still pretty politically weak and unpopular which makes us the perfect targets for the religious bullies who need to prove how powerful they are.


Quick Reply
Cancel
5 years ago  ::  Mar 09, 2010 - 11:10AM #7
mytmouse57
Posts: 9,782

Mar 4, 2010 -- 6:49AM, Lutz wrote:


My girlfriend was wondering why it is that so many American "Christians" feel compelled to religiously delight in specifically targeting gays as a group for abuse with expensive and well organized political campaigns and special lobbying of public officials to say bad things about gays and lesbians and their families and kids.  Other spiritual groups and religious denominations don't appear to us to especially target gays for abuse.  Why is that? My girlfriend usually attends a Buddhist meditation group every week.  I go on occasion to a Quaker Society meeting, which is also more of a meditation.  


Why is American "Christian" spirituality so tied into their compulsion to specifically revile, denigrate and generally bad mouth gays and lesbians? Is it Four of Their 10 Commandments:


Thou Shalt Revile Gays


Thou Shalt Denigrate Lesbians


Thou Shalt Bad Mouth Gay Kids


Thou Shalt Criticize Strongly Gay Families


Is Their God really that mad at gay marriage to cause this vigorous, united effort at Group Libel?


Should we expect The Fundamentalist God to reign down Fire & Brimstone next week-end on Washington, D.C., which just legalized gay marriage?


 




A rhetorical, or "loaded" question is a very dishonest and totally ineffective way to approach an issue.


Anyway, skirting around that tactic, I would say I don't believe in some sort of concerted, organzied effort to "target" gays by a group of frothing Bible-thumpers, any more than I believe there's some elite gay commitee meeting somewhere to discuss, refine and advance the "gay agenda."


I do think that in the general sense, there is an ongoing effort to mainstream and normalize homosexuality -- and that is going to bring with it a certain measure of deliberate moves. Demonizing so-called "hateful fundamentalists" is part of that.


Likewise, there is, in the general sense, an effort by a certain percentage of the population to preserve the things they think are important. So-called "traditional" values. And, trying to create the impression of a "gay agenda" is part of that.


The way I see it, we live in a huge country (both in terms of population and geographical size) that is incredibly diverse. There will always be two, ten, twenty or however many different points of view that are going to clash. And sometimes, people do resort to underhanded tactics and sterotypes. That's not good. It's not honest, ethical or, frankly, very mature. But, it does happen.  The best any one person can do is treat everybody around them with fairness and courtesy. Which is what I try to do, and I succeed at. Well, most of the time, anyway.


As far as the big picture goes, well, I hate to sound like a broken record, but things just go forward and change is going to be constant. We will have gay marriage, and society will not collapse as a result.


We will also contiue to have very deep religious underpinnings in this country. It's ingrained in our culture. So, bitching about either one (open, accepted homosexuality and gay marriage, or old-time religion) might make you feel better. But, don't hold your breath expecting either to go away, or for them to not clash from time to time.

Quick Reply
Cancel
5 years ago  ::  Mar 09, 2010 - 12:05PM #8
MarcosRamos
Posts: 171

Reasonable mainstream straight people such as myself are not holding our breath; not at all. We are simply fighting the good fight for equality for all under the law for gays just as previous people of good will fought the good fight for black civil rights and others have fought for Jewish people to be free of real property covenant laws restricting Jews from buying property in some neighborhoods and other civil discrimination.  The majority will also try to restrict the rights of minorities... that probably is human nature.  But progress has been made and will continue to be made. Gays are just the next in in line to claim their rights.  It's natural and normal and progressive evolution of humanism in action.   


One only has to be aware of current events to see this played out.  For example, the US Supreme Court on Monday agreed to decide whether the father of a Marine killed in Iraq may sue anti-gay fundamentalists who picketed his son's funeral with "God Hates Fags" signs.  This could be a tough job for the court to balance Fee Speech vs the Right of Privacy, but it illustrates the extreme nature of the pitched battle today by some people in the area of sexual orientation.

Quick Reply
Cancel
5 years ago  ::  Mar 17, 2010 - 11:07AM #9
mytmouse57
Posts: 9,782

Mar 9, 2010 -- 12:05PM, MarcosRamos wrote:


Reasonable mainstream straight people such as myself are not holding our breath; not at all. We are simply fighting the good fight for equality for all under the law for gays just as previous people of good will fought the good fight for black civil rights and others have fought for Jewish people to be free of real property covenant laws restricting Jews from buying property in some neighborhoods and other civil discrimination.  The majority will also try to restrict the rights of minorities... that probably is human nature.  But progress has been made and will continue to be made. Gays are just the next in in line to claim their rights.  It's natural and normal and progressive evolution of humanism in action.   


One only has to be aware of current events to see this played out.  For example, the US Supreme Court on Monday agreed to decide whether the father of a Marine killed in Iraq may sue anti-gay fundamentalists who picketed his son's funeral with "God Hates Fags" signs.  This could be a tough job for the court to balance Fee Speech vs the Right of Privacy, but it illustrates the extreme nature of the pitched battle today by some people in the area of sexual orientation.




 


That all sounds very well, good and very noble. And I don’t question your sincerity or integrity. However, it’s also, IMO, overly simplistic. This isn’t as black and white as "reasonable people" verses those who are, well, not. Furthermore, comparing homosexuality to race, ethnic heritage, gender or anything else – and thus by extension trying to say those who might disagree with you are essentially no different than racist, anti- Semites and so on – isn’t fair or intellectually honest.


This also isn’t a situation requiring any actual “equality” so much as simply needing to bring to bear a measure of the tolerance upon which any large, complex and free, open society is based.  To simply smugly declare that your side holds a monopoly upon people of good will and those who don’t agree are bigots does absolutely nothing – except make you, ironically, ultimately look intolerant, narrow-minded and given to applying stereotypes to people who can’t or won’t agree with you.


IMO, the central and only question that needs to be addressed here is: Why should society accommodate and tolerate open homosexuality – up to and including allowing such things as gays to openly serve in the military and legal gay marriage?


There are good, solid, logical answers to that question, IMO.

Quick Reply
Cancel
5 years ago  ::  Mar 17, 2010 - 11:24AM #10
Sirronrex
Posts: 2,675

Mar 17, 2010 -- 11:07AM, mytmouse57 wrote:

IMO, the central and only question that needs to be addressed here is: Why should society accommodate and tolerate open homosexuality – up to and including allowing such things as gays to openly serve in the military and legal gay marriage?


There are good, solid, logical answers to that question, IMO.




 


That isn't the "central and only question that needs to be addressed here". Your question is senseless and baseless.


The central and only question that needs to be addressed here is:


Why should society discriminate and oppress homosexuals (people...not their sexuality) - up to and including denying them the ability to serve openly in the miltary and to freely marry one another legally?


The question here isn't about "accomodating and tolerating" other peoples' sexuality? The question here is about recognizing and respecting OTHER PEOPLE...not their sexuality.


I know you don't understand this...but I AM NOT MY SEXUALITY...and it isn't my sexuality that is being discriminated against. It isn't my sexuality that is being disrespected. It isn't my marriage that is disrespected. It is me, the person, that is being disrespected by my government and by my fellow citizens.


I am being denied my civil rights. I am being denied respect. I am being denied acceptance and tolerance. My sexuality isn't being denied ANYTHING. The only person who could possibly deny my sexuality is me. Been there. Done that. Nothing and no one will ever have me do that again.

I've been on a journey to nowhere...
and know that's the best place to be...
now...here...




If my faith isn't leading me inward, then my faith is leading me astray.

Quick Reply
Cancel
Page 1 of 4  •  1 2 3 4 Next
 
    Viewing this thread :: 0 registered and 1 guest
    No registered users viewing
    Advertisement

    Beliefnet On Facebook