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Switch to Forum Live View What's so bad about being gay?
5 years ago  ::  Feb 11, 2010 - 7:53PM #31
Lutz
Posts: 167

Yah, I'd be really happy if we could just once discuss what's so bad about being gay without some religiously motivated slurs being dragged into our discussion.


Morality can be based on reason, ethics, fairness, science, biology, psychology without religiously motived slurs being used against gays in the discussion.  Enough already with verbal stoning gays; and labeling them immoral, disordered or whatever fundamental literalists call gays these days.  

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5 years ago  ::  Feb 11, 2010 - 9:41PM #32
darcamani
Posts: 2,152

There is nothing wrong with being.


 No book, dogma, written or spoken will change a person's being. 


Jsut because another is uncomfortable or uneasy over the unchangeable does not make another 's orientation right or wrong.   It simply means the one squirming has issues.


Nothing bad about being gay.  The rough stuff happens usually when one feels one can't be honest about something so natural.


"Scared straight".  Now that is bad in my opinion.


Dar


 

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5 years ago  ::  Feb 12, 2010 - 4:39AM #33
marshal
Posts: 195

"Propaganda attempts to force a doctrine on the whole people... Propaganda works on the general public from the standpoint of an idea and makes them ripe for the victory of this idea."  Adolf Hitler's "Mein Kampf" (1926) spread his rancid hatred of Jews and other minorities.  At the core of the Holocaust is Jew Hatred---the same phenomenon which appeared throughout the centuries finding blantant manifestation with the medieval Catholic church.  German anti-Semitism was based on racial ideology which held that Jews were sub-human while the Aryan race was superior.  Jews were characterized as low-lifes, untouchable trash and the source of Germany's economic difficulities.  Gypsies, gays, Polish people and others were also classified as worthy of discrimination laws and work camps and many were killed.


Some Christian political groups with their faith-based campaign against gays parallel Hitler and the Nazis of segregating and dividing people based on a absurd propaganda of slandar and outright lies:  Homosexual Agenda, Gay Marriage destroys straight marriage, child molesters, immoral lifestyle and the really risible absurdity of Gays interfer with spirituality and clean living.


We do have Religious Liberty and the Separation of Church and State and the due process of law and equality for all.


What's wrong with gays?  The more apt question is what's wrong with the Christian propaganda against gays which twists the love of God for our neighbors into a Hitlerian nightmare of discrimination and separation and abuse.

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5 years ago  ::  Feb 12, 2010 - 6:16AM #34
Uplight
Posts: 4

I am not a bigot or a basher of any lifestyle preference, God has given the absolute right to all mankind to live their lives either 1 of 2 ways , HIS WAY MANDATED IN "HOLY"scripture,which we can all read 4 ourselves and choose to believe it or not , my take is as the word says "GOD +CHRIST IS THE SAME ,(HE) OR THEY DO NOT CHANGE,SO THIS TELLS ME THAT NONE OF HIS WORD WILL EVER CHANGE, and "JESUS told us that none are good , except the FATHER ,GOD ALMIGHTY,this includes ME, SO THE QUESTION IS NOT: WHETHER OR NOT GAY PEOPLE ARE OR CAN'T BE GOOD , IN THIS RESPECT WE ARE ALL IN THE SAME BOAT,WITHOUT KNOWING "JESUS CHRIST: as our personal SAVIOUR we simply don't get to make 'HEAVEN our home. Our responsibility before God is to Love 1 another as Christ loved us +to pray 1    4 another , not to judge each other.Christ said that He did not come to judge us ,but we already have a judge the words which He had spoken,ST. JOHN12:VERSES47+48 EVEN ST. JOHN 3:16 -17 TELLS US :CHRIST came not to condemn : but to save. So my advice to all (gay or not ) is be sure according to the word u are ready to stand before a HOLY +JUST GOD WHO TRULY LOVES ALL OF US, (BUT NOT ANY OF OUR SINS)THATS WHY :JESUS CAME +DIED 4 ALL +RESURRECTED 4 ALL SO WE COULD HAVE ETERNAL LIFE THRU +WITH HIM. remember read it 4 yourselves with an open heart +Christ +God will let u know where we each stand with Him. So this truly is my prayer to see all of u +rejoice with u in Heaven eternally.  From beliefnet ,,UPLIGHT,,GLORIA TOLLIE

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5 years ago  ::  Feb 12, 2010 - 7:43AM #35
Lutz
Posts: 167

UPLIGHT:  Being gay is NOT a lifestyle choice any more than my own straight orientation is a lifestyle choice... it's an orientation... something we all are born with...  something we discover about ourselves when we begin to sexually mature. Have you no knowledge or information about science, biology, human psychology in gender and orientation?  Your generalized broad platitudes about the bible are not in dispute here.


What you have failed utterly in your presentation is to say what exactly and precisely is wrong with being gay.  This is not a theological debate; it is a simple and fair question about gays. 


Can you answer the question:  What's so bad about being gay?  Without theological smokescreens and irrelevant asides about your faith!  If you want to debate those notorious 6 Clobber Verses some Christians target gays with... go to the appropriate religion and gay threads.


Here we are debating a secular question.

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5 years ago  ::  Feb 12, 2010 - 7:58AM #36
Austa
Posts: 95

Hi Uplight, welcome aboard.  I'm a loving mother of a gay son who lives with his partner in a condo they bought together with their earnings from their jobs.  My son played football in high school and college, went through the military serving his country honorably, graduated from law school, passed the bar and now works for a prominent law firm.  He does pro bono work for the poor, he serves his church by helping in their soup kitchen twice a month, he pays taxes to the city, county and state where he lives and tithes and offerings to his church, and is involved in civic and community affairs in his neighborhood association for the betterment of everyone.


Can you tell me woman to woman---without mentioning your faith---what is wrong with my son? What is wrong with being gay, Uplight?  We're not discussing a myriad of exegetical approaches that fundamentalist take in targeting gays for their special brand of love......


Uplight, I'm talking to you as a mother about my son!  Tell me what's wrong with gays without bringing in your biblical interpretations. 

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5 years ago  ::  Feb 12, 2010 - 8:14AM #37
Janeiro
Posts: 46

"lifestyle preference"????? What is that?  Is that like making a choice of prefering a literalist  denomination that targets gays for spiritual abuse over a Christian denomination that does not discriminate on the basis of race, color, gender or orientation? 


uplight, there are thousands of Christian congregations today that have chosen to accept gays; yours apparently reads the Bible and interprets the clobber verses in their own way.  Not everyone has the same take on hermeneutics (the art of scriptural interpretation).  Theologians have argued for years about the role of women; now we are arguing about sexual orientation and gay marriage. Do you know about the Rule of Faith and the Principle of Love of St Augestine in biblical interpretation:  always go for charity and love.


BUT, uplight, this is a secular discussion as has been pointed out many times.... perhaps you didn't take the time to read throughly the thread before posting your underlined commentary which is a bit rude, in my view.  We don't need all caps or underlined sentences to read.  It's a  bit distracting and adds nothing to your commentary except irritation for the reader.  We are adults; we can read.


I'm straight, but not narrow and would like to know what's so bad about gays.  Specifically, uplight, without your underlined generalized commentary which doesn't apply to the secular question here.


Can you answer a simple question about gays without telling us something that has no relevance to the question asked?

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5 years ago  ::  Feb 12, 2010 - 8:26AM #38
REteach
Posts: 14,821

Feb 12, 2010 -- 6:16AM, Uplight wrote:


I am not a bigot or a basher of any lifestyle preference



Well, according to your post, you are.


 God has given the absolute right to all mankind to live their lives either 1 of 2 ways



Yes, to love your neighbor as yourself, treat others as you wish to be treated, to worry about your planks.  You are apparently choosing the opposite way.


I believe on Judgment Day, you will get to feel every bit of pain your vitriole causes those who are gay.  And when Jesus says to you "I was a gay man and you treated me like this..." you had better enjoy the company of goats.

I know you believe you understand what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize what you heard was not what I meant...
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5 years ago  ::  Feb 12, 2010 - 8:33AM #39
MarcosRamos
Posts: 171

I'm not sure exactly your saying, uplight, about what is wrong with gays except by implication it's tied to your religious dogma which is not something we were even discussing.  uplight, your ideas are a nice phantasmagoriacal disengenuous dodge to the question of so what's so bad about gays?  There's, nothing, really wrong, except what your mind can conjure up with the sole help of your abusive fundamentalist stones aimed at gays.


Is it so hard to say, uplight, that there's nothing wrong with being gay except they don't fit in with your church dogma?  That's pretty much it, isn't it, uplight?  Other than your church beliefs... nothing's wrong with gays!

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5 years ago  ::  Feb 12, 2010 - 10:28AM #40
faith713
Posts: 3,892

Feb 11, 2010 -- 3:23PM, Janeiro wrote:


Dear faith713:   I didn't ask what God thinks about gays; nor am I asking about various Christian scholars endless arguements and debates about scriptural exegesis, hermeneutics, interpretations, translations etc of the 6 Clobber Verses.   I asked for something quite apart from boilerplate "because God said so" answers. The usual back and forth of what God said or didn't say or mean through ancient cultures and religions is being debated in other religion and sexuality threads.


I asked: what's so bad about being gay?  Any particular, specific, secular, ethical, scientific, reasonable, fair or just reason for saying gays are bad per se? Among your family, extended family, friends and acquaintences, fellow church members, business and professional people, neighbors, fellow employes or work associates who are gay, what's wrong with them? What's so wrong with being gay?




Oh, OK I mistakenly assumed you actually cared what God thought. My bad.


 


 


 

"Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me."--John14:6

For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.-- John 3:16

"We love Him because He first loved us."--1 John 4:9-10

"There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear ... "
1 John 4:18
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