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Switch to Forum Live View Gays in the military
5 years ago  ::  Jan 29, 2010 - 10:39PM #1
rangerken
Posts: 16,408

Don't Ask Don't Tell, the current policy in effect in the US military, is once again being looked at with a view to ending it. Obama brought it up in his Wednesday night speech, and it has been in the news since.


www.cnn.com/2010/POLITICS/01/27/obama.ga...


My own position is not fully formed. The best machine gunner in my company during one of my tours in Vietnam was homosexual...and one hell of a fine soldier who had one of the highest confirmed kill rates in the entire company. We all knew he was Gay... and we all did not care!


There are some questions that need to be answered...these include...


1. sleeping arrangements


2. showers and latrines


3. what about trans sexuals...what are they?


4. Cross dressing???


So, fellow Hot topic Zoners... what do y'all think?????


Ken

Libertarian, Conservative, Life member of the NRA and VFW
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5 years ago  ::  Jan 29, 2010 - 10:55PM #2
Abner1
Posts: 6,437

Rangerken wrote:


> There are some questions that need to be answered...these include...


> 1. sleeping arrangements


I imagine the same problem came up when they started letting women into the military, and that was some time ago.  IMO the *sleeping* arrangements would be the same as for heterosexual soliders.  If this is a euphemism for sex, on the other hand, why not apply the same rules as for sex for heterosexual soldiers?  I guess I don't see the problem - is it because some heterosexual soldiers would be upset to sleep in the same quarters as homosexual soldiers?  Tough, they're in the armed forces, they don't get to make those decisions.  I'm sure there are soldiers who are upset to sleep in the same quarters as people of other races, or other religions, and they have to just tough it out too.  I don't see why soldiers' dislike of gays should be treated any differently than dislike of people of other races or religions.


> 2. showers and latrines


Same as above.  If the gay person is 'coming on' to others, treat it the same way as you would a straight soldier 'coming on' to others.  Somehow I doubt that the latrines will be a romantic spot for most gay soldiers, though.


> 3. what about trans sexuals...what are they?


Good question - I don't have a good answer on that.  Neither does our society outside the military.  Why don't we deal with the homosexuals first ... transsexuals are a rather different issue from gays.


4. Cross dressing???


Cross dressing also has little or nothing to do with being gay.  Frankly, the military assigns uniforms, so why not just continue with them having to wear the assigned uniforms when on duty just like anyone else.  What they do off duty is their own business - if soldier A can wear plaid slacks with a hawaiian shirt and neon-yellow shoes when off duty, I guess soldier B can dress up like Klinger under the same circumstances.

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5 years ago  ::  Jan 29, 2010 - 11:23PM #3
jane2
Posts: 14,295

Jan 29, 2010 -- 10:39PM, rangerken wrote:


Don't Ask Don't Tell, the current policy in effect in the US military, is once again being looked at with a view to ending it. Obama brought it up in his Wednesday night speech, and it has been in the news since.


My own position is not fully formed. The best machine gunner in my company during one of my tours in Vietnam was homosexual...and one hell of a fine soldier who had one of the highest confirmed kill rates in the entire company. We all knew he was Gay... and we all did not care!


There are some questions that need to be answered...these include...


1. sleeping arrangements


2. showers and latrines


3. what about trans sexuals...what are they?


4. Cross dressing???


So, fellow Hot topic Zoners... what do y'all think?????


Ken




I was wondering what you would think.


My husband and I had many military officers as friends but that was now a long while ago. In civilian life I am against anti-gay legislation. I don't know enough about military life to really have an answer.....


 




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5 years ago  ::  Jan 29, 2010 - 11:38PM #4
loveontheair
Posts: 4,057

Hello,


 


As a retired Army and National Guard mechanic with 23 years served and being right of center--I have strong beliefs particularly on this issue. Being right of center, most here know my position without having to go into the details. I will leave it at that.


 


love

Good works will never produce faith, but faith will always produce good works. loveontheair
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5 years ago  ::  Jan 29, 2010 - 11:59PM #5
rangerken
Posts: 16,408

Love, I served 30 years, my wife served 28 years, and our son has been in seven years and we're just not sure! If it's just a matter of soldiers (I'll keep things to the army which is what my wife and son and I have experience with) making off duty choices regarding who they 'play' with I don't see any problems. It's the other stuff that can be problematic which is why I posted those questions, some of which have been addressed already.


I will say, however, that in terms of sleeping, shower, latrine and uniform issues biology MUST rule... ie. biological males are 'males' and biological females re 'females'... period! Specifically, XY = male and XX = female... period!


Off duty, and off base, it should not matter. That's my opinion as of now. It was my opinion when I was a Platoon Sergeant with a homosexual machine gunner in 1968. And on the several occasions later when  was a company, battalion and brigade commander and I KNEW one of my soldiers (sometimes female as well as male during Desert Storm in 1990-91) who was homosexual, I did not care as long as I didn't have to care.


My son, a regular army Staff Sgt E-6, tells me that the don't ask, don't tell thing works well enough as far as he's concerned.


I'd love to hear from other veterans and serving members.


Ken

Libertarian, Conservative, Life member of the NRA and VFW
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5 years ago  ::  Jan 30, 2010 - 12:27AM #6
Scott
Posts: 88

Just to clarify a few points:


1. Transsexuals already serve in the military.  There is no regulation prohibiting post-op transgendered folks from serving, unless they also happen to be gay.


2. There are already plenty of cross-dressers in the military.  Most cross-dressers are straight not gay.  This isn't always true, as J. Edgar Hoover proved, some gays do crossdress.  Most do not. 


I served in the Army back in the '70s with several gay men.  I found their military service to be indistinguishable from straights. 


My opinion: I can not believe that 30 years later we are still having this discussion and still denying people their basic civil rights because of the sexuality they were born with.  Will we ever progress???

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5 years ago  ::  Jan 30, 2010 - 12:30AM #7
jane2
Posts: 14,295

Jan 29, 2010 -- 11:59PM, rangerken wrote:


Love, I served 30 years, my wife served 28 years, and our son has been in seven years and we're just not sure! If it's just a matter of soldiers (I'll keep things to the army which is what my wife and son and I have experience with) making off duty choices regarding who they 'play' with I don't see any problems. It's the other stuff that can be problematic which is why I posted those questions, some of which have been addressed already.


I will say, however, that in terms of sleeping, shower, latrine and uniform issues biology MUST rule... ie. biological males are 'males' and biological females re 'females'... period! Specifically, XY = male and XX = female... period!


Off duty, and off base, it should not matter. That's my opinion as of now. It was my opinion when I was a Platoon Sergeant with a homosexual machine gunner in 1968. And on the several occasions later when  was a company, battalion and brigade commander and I KNEW one of my soldiers (sometimes female as well as male during Desert Storm in 1990-91) who was homosexual, I did not care as long as I didn't have to care.


My son, a regular army Staff Sgt E-6, tells me that the don't ask, don't tell thing works well enough as far as he's concerned.


I'd love to hear from other veterans and serving members.


Ken




I would love to hear from this group, too.


This is a topic that should have "legs".




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5 years ago  ::  Jan 30, 2010 - 12:43AM #8
mountain_man
Posts: 40,255

Jan 29, 2010 -- 10:39PM, rangerken wrote:

There are some questions that need to be answered...these include...


1. sleeping arrangements



Educate the homophobes that not every gay wants to do nasty things with them.


2. showers and latrines



Same as above.


3. what about trans sexuals...what are they?



Human.


4. Cross dressing???



When not on duty, it's no ones business.


So, fellow Hot topic Zoners... what do y'all think?????



I think those in the military that do not want to serve with homosexuals should be given a general discharge. There are gays in the military right now, serving - AND DYING. To treat them like dirt is reprehensible.

Dave - Just a Man in the Mountains.

I am a Humanist. I believe in a rational philosophy of life, informed by science, inspired by art, and motivated by a desire to do good for its own sake and not by an expectation of a reward or fear of punishment in an afterlife.
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5 years ago  ::  Jan 30, 2010 - 1:04AM #9
rangerken
Posts: 16,408

When I joined the army in May 1962, a lot of soldiers serving remembered the end of racial segregation in the late 1940's. Some soldiers did indeed have to get out since they could not handle things. The same thing may happen in this case. As I've said, I have experience serving with homosexual soldiers, and literally fighting alongside some. There will be problems. They can be solved. I am not sure how everything ought to be handled. Some suggestions are,  I think, too simplistic. However, I've been out since 1992 so I'm not in any loop anyymore. I will ask my son about this and see if his opinion is the same as it was when we last discussed this... which was some years ago because he really doesn't care much and, also as I wrote earlier, he's OK with the current policy.


Lots of good posts here... please continue!


Ken

Libertarian, Conservative, Life member of the NRA and VFW
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5 years ago  ::  Jan 30, 2010 - 1:19AM #10
mountain_man
Posts: 40,255

Jan 30, 2010 -- 1:04AM, rangerken wrote:

When I joined the army in May 1962, a lot of soldiers serving remembered the end of racial segregation in the late 1940's. Some soldiers did indeed have to get out since they could not handle things. The same thing may happen in this case. As I've said, I have experience serving with homosexual soldiers, and literally fighting alongside some. There will be problems. They can be solved. I am not sure how everything ought to be handled. Some suggestions are,  I think, too simplistic.



Simple solutions are always the best. Why over complicate things. If someone doesn't want to serve with gays, then let them out with a general (not honorable) discharge. The military should be about protecting ALL citizens, not just the ones they approve of. We, as a society, should not be supportive in any way of homophobia. It's time we grew out of that silliness.

Dave - Just a Man in the Mountains.

I am a Humanist. I believe in a rational philosophy of life, informed by science, inspired by art, and motivated by a desire to do good for its own sake and not by an expectation of a reward or fear of punishment in an afterlife.
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