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Switch to Forum Live View Gay Marriage...what about the kids...
9 years ago  ::  Aug 28, 2009 - 5:45PM #1
Posts: 5,740

I'll be honest.  I really haven't paid much attention to issues affecting gay people in America.  I'm not opposed to gay marriage, but it's not something I've ever bothered to take a stand on, either, because I never saw it as affecting me personally.  I've never seen it as that huge of a deal.  I mean, I understood why a gay couple would feel like their rights were being infringed upon by not being able to marry, but I didn't really understand the level of impact it had.  I figured I have bigger issues to take on that do have a more direct affect on my own life, but recently, I've come to look at the issue much more personally.

I have a co-worker who is gay.  We've started to become friends, mostly because we have daughters around the same age in common, and we each love to talk and talk about our kids.  The other day, she was talking about a medical condition that her daughter has and needs treatment for.  She was saying how her daughter's "other mom" had crappy health insurance that didn't cover this procedure, and they were trying to save up what they needed to pay for it.  I naively asked why she didn't put her daughter on our group insurance policy at work, as I was sure it would cover the procedure.  Her response was that she couldn't because she wasn't her biological daughter and the state doesn't recognize her as the mother.  She explained that, she has power of attorney, so she can take her to the doctor and that sort of thing, and they share "custody", but beyond that, she has no real parental rights in the eyes of the law.  It kind of put a face on the cause for me.  I had never really thought about it on that level getting the shaft because the state refuses to recognize both of their parents. 

They planned for this child together...they've raised this child together...this child loves both of them as her parents...yet only one of them is legally considered the parent of this child.  If a man wanted to adopt this little girl, HE could be considered the 2nd parent.  HE wouldn't be told that he doesn't count because he's not the 'biological parent'.  Yet the mother who has helped raise her has no rights?  Without giving any of the standard, hateful answers, can someone who is opposed to gay marriage tell me how it is justified to not allow a parent, in every sense of the word, to BE a parent?     

Our need to learn should always outweigh our need to be right

It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.

More people would learn from their mistakes if they weren't so busy denying them.
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9 years ago  ::  Aug 28, 2009 - 5:56PM #2
Posts: 16,577

Weird how knowing somebody, and seeing how much like our own their struggles are, puts the lie to all the homophobic claims, isn't it? But you will find people, the pope for instance, who will claim that this couple is "doing violence" to their daughter by virtue of them being in love with someone of the same gender.  There will be people claiming this family is "threatening the institution of marriage. " 

I suspect a lot of us who are straight go through the same thing--either paying no attention or buying into the bs, and then we meet someone who we actually know to be gay and become friends and realize that the whole argument against homosexuality in general and same sex marriage in particular is nothing but a house of cards.   

Welcome to the bandwagon!

I know you believe you understand what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize what you heard was not what I meant...
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9 years ago  ::  Aug 31, 2009 - 2:55AM #3
Posts: 181

Like ReTeach said, funny how when it becomes personal, you "get it".  Welcome to the fight.

I recently read an article that said that social conservatives value authority and conformity and purity more than justice, fairness, or doing no harm.  That's why they think gay marriage will destroy straight marriage: they think that going against authority and tradition will make the whole world come tumbling down.  Kinda makes you think that their world must be a house of cards, and they know it.

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9 years ago  ::  Aug 31, 2009 - 4:48AM #4
Posts: 277

Aug 28, 2009 -- 5:45PM, Cesmom wrote:

 Without giving any of the standard, hateful answers, can someone who is opposed to gay marriage tell me how it is justified to not allow a parent, in every sense of the word, to BE a parent?     


Well , it CAN'T be justified unless your willing to put 'issues' and dogma before compassion, before love, before children, before real people.

Sometimes I think that it's just about seeing past the labels and the politics .

I wonder how folks who haven't given much thought to gay marriage would respond if they heard that their was a country (town, village, city) somewhere that made it illegal for a certain class of people to get married without mentioning that those people where homosexual.  And after it was revealed that , that class that couldn't get married was homosexuals I wonder how many folks would say ...."Oh well, that's diffrent. It's only homosexuals ?"

Cesmom....Thanx for seeing the reality behind the label


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9 years ago  ::  Aug 31, 2009 - 9:03AM #5
Posts: 2,152

I am a gay mom of 2 sons.   Never married their dad, and am not allowed to marry my partner in my State. 

I have full custudy.  That makes me a single parent.  No different from other single parents. 

I manage with love patience and 2 incredible boys that know they have a gay mom, honesty prevails.

They have witnessed the ignorance drived vilolence first hand and frankly it sucks.

They get picked on by my being gay constantly, they stop people in their tracks with, "my mom is gay,  that is not the problem, she is a chef and THAT is the weird thing. "

It is!   My "lifestyle" involves long intense hours of recipe development, practice, and actual food prep and delivery.  

My kids are often on a farm picking produce, weeding, or in the kitchen with me when not in school.   I am hands on  weekends . 40 hours in 2 days. 

I do not have health care and have no access to my partners  benefits nor their dads, ( who is an involved parent).  If I married him I would have his benefits   right away.  I would be living a lie and would be miserable, as would he and our children.  Bad news.

 My partner has no rights even if we "bond"  although we are very happy and the kids see her as a bonus parent.

I am a veteran and swore to protect and defend the Constitution, something that does not protect me, nor my family.   Hello! I am a human and an American!

What does all this have to do with my being gay?  Nothing.

   For some that are threatened by odd things that have nothing to do with real life, everything.  

I also want to hear from folk who feel threatened by someone who loves, raises children, protects your rights, and even cooks for you, every day.

What if all us gay parents  went on strike?

Even the lawyers  would be overwhelmed!  Who would handle all the divorce and custody cases from all the  straight people?      

$$$$$$$$$  That is what it comes down to. IMO.


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9 years ago  ::  Sep 02, 2009 - 1:36PM #6
Posts: 9,782

First -- Can't she adopt without being married?  It seems to me, this situation is no different than a hetrosexual couple who are "shacked up" (together, but not married) and have children from one, the other or both in household. So again, do you have to be legally married to the biological parent in order to adopt a child?

Secondly, I know for a fact that there are numerous programs and alternatives for children with no health insurance. I know this because my younger son has some issues that require rather costly treatment and neither his mother or I (we've been divorced for well over a decade) have health insurance at all. She does not work, and with a significant chunk of my paycheck already going to child support, I simply can't afford the payroll deduction for company-provided health insurance and still be able to pay my other bills (in no small part because the state demands that if I have insurance, my children must also be on it.)

Anyway, I know nearly all his medical expenses are covered through state programs.

Lastly, it seems this situation with your friend's daughter (as well as my own situation and that of millons of Americans who work and still cannot afford insurance) points not so much to the need for gay marriage as to the need for health care reform.

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9 years ago  ::  Sep 03, 2009 - 1:56AM #7
Posts: 277

Yep, we need health care reform .

In the mean time... Isn't it nice that heterosexual couples have the option of Marriage if "Shacking up" doesn't work for their families.

Also, in many states it's much easier and way less expensive for someone who is legally married to the biological parent of children that they wish to adopt.

And while the situation of Cesmom's friends daughter points to a need for healthcare reform , it also points out a gross injustice against gay families when a loving couple is forced to "shack up" and deprive their children of benefits or beg the state to pay for them because it's against the law for them to get married.

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9 years ago  ::  Sep 03, 2009 - 3:52AM #8
Posts: 153

What kids?  There ARE no kids unless a male and female unite, before and after the fact through the span of time.  Nature does not make way for an egg to fertilize itself, or sperm to form a conglamorate that ends up being a human child.  If I were a homosexual, I would involve no children.  At least, I HOPE I wouldn't.

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9 years ago  ::  Sep 03, 2009 - 7:11AM #9
Posts: 2,152


Homosexual folk are HUMAN.  Most males come with live sperm and most females come with live eggs. Some times they meet and guess what? Children are created.

I am a lesbian with 2 of them!  They are very real.  Sent them off to school this morning with 2 double decker peanut butter and jelly sandwiches and an apple. 

Having children has NOTHING to do with sexual orientation. It has to do with reproduction. Just about anyone can do it.  Does not even take a lot of thought for most.

Parenting has nothing to do with sexual orientation.   It requires love, patience,  empathy and a great deal of laughter.  Neither gender nor marriage is on the parent inlistment form. 

What about the kids?  What about them?  Having two loving commited parents is a GOOD thing.  Many don't have that luxury.

My kids have the benefit of having two extra adults to lean on, their dad and his partner (he is gay too) and me and mine.  We all get along, we all co- parent and it is not rocket science.

Dar, who is shaking head in disbelief that the last poster actually is this ignorant.  Ugh!  I am getting to old for this .

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9 years ago  ::  Sep 03, 2009 - 7:16AM #10
Posts: 2,152

And another thing...

Sexual orientation is about who one is attracted to and falls in love with. It is fluid.  Gender doesn't have much to do with that either. One falls in love with who one falls in love with.

It is not about the sex, that is a bonus.


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