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Switch to Forum Live View The Gay Guy Came to Church - A Puzzle
6 years ago  ::  Jun 03, 2009 - 11:59PM #41
JoeRoyce
Posts: 75



1st of all, Grace is no cheap ... it cost God His Son.


 


How do you figure that?  Is Jesus no longer with God?  Was He somehow taken away from God?


 


At most, it cost His Son's mortal life.  Hardly a sacrifice when you are the Son of God who came down with the purpose of dying and going right back to God.




Hardly a sacrifice? May be if you're not the KING of KINGS being willingly spit upon, beaten, and crucified by your "servants"...to save those same people and their children.. the patience, the humbleness, the courage .. even though you have the power to crush it all... if that's not a sacrifice, what is? (rhetorical)




 


The humiliation wasn't the sacrifice you mentioned.  It was God losing His Son.  Which He clearly didn't.


 


Are you so concerned with making points that you have lost the thread of the conversation?

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6 years ago  ::  Jun 06, 2009 - 2:29PM #42
Shadeosg
Posts: 222

Jun 2, 2009 -- 11:05PM, DaLight wrote:

I hope you dont think the Bible verses are like witchcraft books (whatever they are called) that you need to recite the exact original words in its original language for a magic or a miracle to happen.



Hmmm maybe you mean grimoires.  While they have a nice historical feel to them they aren't widely used by modern witches.  None of my books on witchcraft suggest that exact words need to be spoken for spells and rituals to be successful.  Most have the view that the wods and actions you write yourself will be the most appropriate.  There are certainly suggestions, hoodoo for example usually matches up particular Psalms from the Bible to be recited during spells.


I reallly hope you are never caught eating Shellfish the DaLight because I would hate for a shrimp cocktail to land you in Hell.  Why a god would care if you eat shrimp is beyond me of course but he wrote it down so I hope you are following it.  I'll enjoy my jambalaya.

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6 years ago  ::  Jun 06, 2009 - 2:35PM #43
Shadeosg
Posts: 222

May 31, 2009 -- 11:15PM, DaLight wrote:

I dont have to do that because it's been put aside for those without sin .. that law has served its purpose during its time and needed to be put aside.



It served it's purpose!?!  There was a time when your god really wanted women who were raped to be stoned to death and then later in history he thought "Well ok I suppose there has been enough stoning of rape victims I am going to take that one off the books."


Why would you follow a god who wants raped women to be soned to death?  I mean that's a pretty huge character flaw right there. 


Also, how do you judge when these people in your church are taking pride in their sin.  Do they have to accidentally wear their lobster bib on Sunday?

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6 years ago  ::  Jun 07, 2009 - 2:46AM #44
leguru
Posts: 167

I dont have to do that because it's been put aside for those without sin .. that law has served its purpose during its time and needed to be put aside. I get my guidance from the ENTIRE BIBLE .. I dont speculate some parts are mistaken or changed or sabotaged or etc



Which "law" has been "put aside?" The Ten Commandments? The sacrifice laws for the priests? The eating and social laws of Deuteronomy and Leviticus? The beautiful homosexual relationships of Ruth and Naomi and of Jonathan and David? Be specific. And how do you know which laws? Did Jesus say it or did someone say that Jesus said it (heresay)? In fact, about one hundred years after Jesus supposedly said it. Someone who is anonymous (we do not know who the authors that claimed to be Matthew, Mark, Luke or John actually were)? If that is all the authority you require, I have some beach-front property in Arizona I would like to sell you. Wink


And, finally, who are "those without sin?" I don't recall anyone casting that first stone at Mary Magdalene. Kiss

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6 years ago  ::  Jun 09, 2009 - 1:24AM #45
DaLight
Posts: 18

Jun 7, 2009 -- 2:46AM, leguru wrote:


I dont have to do that because it's been put aside for those without sin .. that law has served its purpose during its time and needed to be put aside. I get my guidance from the ENTIRE BIBLE .. I dont speculate some parts are mistaken or changed or sabotaged or etc



Which "law" has been "put aside?" The Ten Commandments? The sacrifice laws for the priests? The eating and social laws of Deuteronomy and Leviticus? The beautiful homosexual relationships of Ruth and Naomi and of Jonathan and David? Be specific. And how do you know which laws? Did Jesus say it or did someone say that Jesus said it (heresay)? In fact, about one hundred years after Jesus supposedly said it. Someone who is anonymous (we do not know who the authors that claimed to be Matthew, Mark, Luke or John actually were)? If that is all the authority you require, I have some beach-front property in Arizona I would like to sell you.

And, finally, who are "those without sin?" I don't recall anyone casting that first stone at Mary Magdalene.



That is the whole point..there is no one without sin so I am not going to throw any stone on the adultress (as one of the guys suggested me do so)..


And for the authenticity of Matthew, Mark, 13 Letters of Paul, etc..we both know this is not the forum for it and that I can bring you all the facts minus a video of the authors writing it and you're going to believe what you want. And plus, since we're talking about the "Gay guy coming to church" as the topic of this forum, I can use the Bible to defend the sinfulness of homosexuality because Church is based on the Bible as a whole.


...and for David/Jonathan, Ruth/Naomi, please dont equate love with sex, they're completely different... and EVEN if they had that type of relationship, it in no way suggests God promotes it. Saying that would be like saying God promoted David killing his servant and taking his widow as his wife - just because it's mentioned in the Bible as a historical fact!

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6 years ago  ::  Jun 09, 2009 - 12:10PM #46
darcamani
Posts: 2,152

LOL! 


Knowledge is power. 


  I KNOW the BIBLE is a book written by men for men over thousands of years. 


   It is equal to any "witchcraft  book" is used the same way!   Prayer is simply will and intent put into words and ritual is spiritual play to connect to the intangible. 


 Something humans do because we think to much about nothing.  No one has to say something or read something or do something in a paticular way to make something happen.   All that and a cookie only makes us feel better.  


Life happens and will happen regardless . 


So a gay guy goes to church,because he wants to feel better.  He has that right.  If reading the bible works for him, yea!   I am a gay gal, I get more out of cooking, food connects me to spirit. 


So what was the question?  I am still laughing. all those years studying theology and I actually find peace over guacamole.


Dar

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6 years ago  ::  Jun 09, 2009 - 12:38PM #47
Shadeosg
Posts: 222

Jun 9, 2009 -- 1:24AM, DaLight wrote:

That is the whole point..there is no one without sin so I am not going to throw any stone on the adultress (as one of the guys suggested me do so)..



Actually I am just really interested in hearing why you want to worship a god who demands the execution of rape victims - not adultresses.  Executing adultresses also seems prety sick but let's put that aside and hear your justification for there being a time and place for stoning rape victims to death.

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6 years ago  ::  Jun 09, 2009 - 1:11PM #48
leguru
Posts: 167

Jun 9, 2009 -- 12:38PM, Shadeosg wrote:


Jun 9, 2009 -- 1:24AM, DaLight wrote:

That is the whole point..there is no one without sin so I am not going to throw any stone on the adultress (as one of the guys suggested me do so)..



Actually I am just really interested in hearing why you want to worship a god who demands the execution of rape victims - not adultresses.  Executing adultresses also seems prety sick but let's put that aside and hear your justification for there being a time and place for stoning rape victims to death.




DaLight: I am also really interested in hearing why you want to worship a god who demands his righteous servants sacrifice their only children - NOT wicked servants, RIGHTEOUS servants, as in Abraham and Isaac (Gen 22) and Jephthah and his daughter (Judges 11). What a sicko! Frown

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6 years ago  ::  Jun 09, 2009 - 6:19PM #49
JoeRoyce
Posts: 75



I dont have to do that because it's been put aside for those without sin .. that law has served its purpose during its time and needed to be put aside. I get my guidance from the ENTIRE BIBLE .. I dont speculate some parts are mistaken or changed or sabotaged or etc



Which "law" has been "put aside?" The Ten Commandments? The sacrifice laws for the priests? The eating and social laws of Deuteronomy and Leviticus? The beautiful homosexual relationships of Ruth and Naomi and of Jonathan and David? Be specific. And how do you know which laws? Did Jesus say it or did someone say that Jesus said it (heresay)? In fact, about one hundred years after Jesus supposedly said it. Someone who is anonymous (we do not know who the authors that claimed to be Matthew, Mark, Luke or John actually were)? If that is all the authority you require, I have some beach-front property in Arizona I would like to sell you.


And, finally, who are "those without sin?" I don't recall anyone casting that first stone at Mary Magdalene.




That is the whole point..there is no one without sin so I am not going to throw any stone on the adultress (as one of the guys suggested me do so)..


And for the authenticity of Matthew, Mark, 13 Letters of Paul, etc..we both know this is not the forum for it and that I can bring you all the facts minus a video of the authors writing it and you're going to believe what you want. And plus, since we're talking about the "Gay guy coming to church" as the topic of this forum, I can use the Bible to defend the sinfulness of homosexuality because Church is based on the Bible as a whole.


...and for David/Jonathan, Ruth/Naomi, please dont equate love with sex, they're completely different... and EVEN if they had that type of relationship, it in no way suggests God promotes it. Saying that would be like saying God promoted David killing his servant and taking his widow as his wife - just because it's mentioned in the Bible as a historical fact!




First you exempt yourself from something by claiming it doesn't apply to those without sin, then you say that there is no one without sin.


 


Contradictions hurt your argument.

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6 years ago  ::  Jun 13, 2009 - 11:46PM #50
leguru
Posts: 167

I'll give the Christian Bible this, it admonishes people to focus on what builds rather than what destroys.



You're saying this with a straight face? And you're condemning a very obvious lesbian relationship as being somehow wrong? It's not wrong, it's beautiful. Oh, wait, you don't want to be confused by the facts, since your mind is already made up, right? Wink

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