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Switch to Forum Live View Is the Bible silent on gay marriage?
3 years ago  ::  Mar 08, 2011 - 3:26PM #791
TPaine
Posts: 9,233

Mar 8, 2011 -- 4:34AM, Briannarose wrote:


Not really Dacamani the sin of being a homosexual is in the Good Book period! No matter what you may think or believe. It cannot be taken out! God said His Word will always last where everything else will corrode and be no more(paraphrased here)!



Actually, that is your interpretation of the Bible. Other Christian heterosexuals who post here such as REteach and The Maven do not agree with your interpretation. Christianity does not have universal beliefs. If every Christian agreed on what the Bible said, there wouldn't be such a multitude of different sects.


Mar 8, 2011 -- 4:34AM, Briannarose wrote:

I am not mean,  it is just some do not want to hear the truth..... they choose to be in denial and live without Him by sinning over and over when they realize it is a sin against God in the first place. I am sure many Christians have told you that being gay is a sin so I know this is not the first time you have been told the Truth about the abomination.



It has nothing to do with not wanting to hear the truth. Those Christians that disagree with you are expressing what they believe is the correct interpretation of what the Bible says, just as you do. Their opinion is just as valid as yours.


Mar 8, 2011 -- 4:34AM, Briannarose wrote:

You can use your wrong map if you like it just goes to show that you make mistakes as everyone else at sometime or another in their life. I don't need to go to the pulpit and preach for I am always spreading the Good News of Jesus Christ in many different ways that I am opportune to!



Did you ever stop to think that you may be the one with the wrong map? You don't have the answers, you only have your opinions, just as everyone else does. No one has ever been able to prove that a given religion (or lack thereof) is correct although many have tried and some have convinced others to follow them, but no one has ever presented actual proof that their beliefs are the ones that are right..


Mar 8, 2011 -- 4:34AM, Briannarose wrote:

Being a Christian is not a religion it is a personal relationship with the One who saves souls from damnation and judgement day! Those that are in Christ will not be partaking on that last day of judgement because of the one who died for our iniquities.



Christianity certainly is a religion based on the definition.

religion
–noun
1. a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, especially when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.
2. a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects: the Christian religion; the Buddhist religion.
3. the body of persons adhering to a particular set of beliefs and practices: a world council of religions.
4. the life or state of a monk, nun, etc.: to enter religion.
5. the practice of religious  beliefs; ritual observance of faith.
6. something one believes in and follows devotedly; a point or matter of ethics or conscience: to make a religion of fighting prejudice.
7. religions, Archaic . religious  rites.
8. Archaic . strict faithfulness; devotion: a religion to one's vow.
—Idiom
9. get religion, Informal .
    a. to acquire a deep conviction of the validity of religious beliefs and practices.
    b. to resolve to mend one's errant ways: The company got religion and stopped
Dictionary.com Unabridged
Based on the Random House Dictionary, © Random House, Inc. 2011.


BTW, you do know that proselytizing in these forums violates the Bnet Rules of Conduct, don't you?


Mar 8, 2011 -- 4:34AM, Briannarose wrote:

Humans did not create the idea of sin it was from the beginning in the Garden of Eden, the tree that was forbidden to eat from. It separated us from God when Eve ate from that tree. So you might want to refresh your memory on the reading material on that from the beginning of the Holy Bible. If you dare to even open it for the first time EVER. It seems you spend too much time on reading maps then you do the Bible that might be your first hint that you may need to open it IMHO. You can be gay all you want to and I will be a Christian living my life for Jesus Christ for the rest of my life here on earth. See we all have made choices it is called freedom because God gave it to us before HE knew us in our Mother's womb.



Once again you are expressing your interpretation of the Bible. The Torah was originally written in Hebrew. Are you basing your interpretation on the Hebrew Tanakh or on an English translation. Oh, before you suggest I need to open the Bible "for the first time EVER," you should know that I have read it many times and have studied it as a historical piece of literature. You have the right to believe whatever you want to believe. I will support you in retaining that right, but others have the same right you do. To deny a group equal rights under the law violates the Constitution of the United States. That includes both religious sects and the LGBT community.


Mar 8, 2011 -- 4:34AM, Briannarose wrote:

What happened that you are not being so nice here anymore? Were you agitated from your friends postings to reply a not so good post to me? I know you can post better than what you have done here. You have been better Darcamani in posting your views IMHO.



Don't you understand that your replies to Dar are both insulting and demeaning? You ask her to be nice when in the same post you call her a sinner and an abomination. Are you inferring that she must post following a set of arbitrary rules but you're exempt from having to follow them?


Mar 8, 2011 -- 4:34AM, Briannarose wrote:

Anywho God bless you!



I'm sure God will since she doesn't judge others.


Mar 8, 2011 -- 4:34AM, Briannarose wrote:

Please notice the words without natural affection it may help you to understand!


Romans 1:[28] And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; [29] Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, [30] Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, [31] Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: [32] Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.



Gee I don't see the words lesbian or homosexual in that little hate list. Why don't you try Matthew 7:1-5 or Luke 6:37-42?

"It is always to be taken for granted, that those who oppose an equality of rights never mean the exclusion should take place on themselves." -- Thomas Paine: Dissertations on First Principles of Government (July 7, 1795)
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3 years ago  ::  Mar 08, 2011 - 3:58PM #792
Yavanna
Posts: 3,149

Mar 8, 2011 -- 4:34AM, Briannarose wrote:

Mar 7, 2011 -- 7:15AM, darcamani wrote:


All the books in what one refers to as "the bible", remain sient on homosexuality in general and gay marriage.  It was written in different times by men scared witless that the world was coming to an end.  Wars, starvation, disease ...


Jesus wrote nothing known down, so what jesus allegedly said was made up after he was killed.  Many years, like about 400 give or take a few.


Jesus was not christian, was never a christian and did not even know the word!


Telling people, any people they are sinners and lost is very mean.  There are almost 7 billion people on this planet, 7 BILLION.   That is a bunch of people you are trashing.


We come in all different colors, sizes, shapes, abilities and practice endless ways to worship the unknown.  All are perfect if God created the entire idea of ideas, right?


There are variations in gender, orientation, color, left or right or no handedness, etc... none are right or wrong, it is personal.


I have asked the universe what was up, and received a very peaceful answer, being true to self was it, and I am not 'lost".


OK, I got on the wrong highway once or twice  and ended up in a different State.  Once or twice :)


Had nothing to do with my sexual orientation, had everything to do with my sence of direction.  Did not require a book. I had a map and read it backwards!  Try that trick with the bible.


Again, this had nothing to do with my sexual orientation.  My being gay and loving a woman is completely natural for me.  I have never converted nor forced my orientation on anyone, it would not be nice to force another to be something they are clearly not.


Same with religion, not everyone is christian, again, even Jesus wasn't, forcing beliefs on another and calling someone less than when they choose to believe and practice something else is rude imo.


Now I get into rocky territory.


Homosexuality is not a choice, nor is it a lifestyle, nor is it a practice. I did not choose to be a homosexual, I do not have to practice, I am good at being me, and my lifestyle has very little to do with my mate beyond the fact we have no domestic partner rights ...


It is an orientation.


Religion and the lifestyle and practice is a choice.   One may practice Zen, or attempt christianity or be hindu or jewish or muslim and anything humans invent.  Key is human invention.


Gender and orientation is a whole different issue.  It trancends all of the above and simply is even if  one has never read a book .


To simplify, Being gay is no choice. It simply is .


If one is not gay it is a non issue unless you are a closeted and  lying, or a family member who fears for safety which is an issue the most violent in my country being self identified closeted christian homosexuals filled with self hate.  Boy they are a hurting bunch!


Do me a favor Brianna; go to your church and preach from the pulpit all are wonders created by GOD and all must be loved and cared for and all must be welcomed as perfect human beings .


Humans created the idea of sin, and humans created the idea of god.


Stop blaming a book or a dead man and start living now.


Thanks


Dar


 




Not really Dacamani the sin of being a homosexual is in the Good Book period! No matter what you may think or believe. It cannot be taken out! God said His Word will always last where everything else will corrode and be no more(paraphrased here)!


I am not mean,  it is just some do not want to hear the truth..... they choose to be in denial and live without Him by sinning over and over when they realize it is a sin against God in the first place. I am sure many Christians have told you that being gay is a sin so I know this is not the first time you have been told the Truth about the abomination.


You can use your wrong map if you like it just goes to show that you make mistakes as everyone else at sometime or another in their life. I don't need to go to the pulpit and preach for I am always spreading the Good News of Jesus Christ in many different ways that I am opportune to!


Being a Christian is not a religion it is a personal relationship with the One who saves souls from damnation and judgement day! Those that are in Christ will not be partaking on that last day of judgement because of the one who died for our iniquities.


Humans did not create the idea of sin it was from the beginning in the Garden of Eden, the tree that was forbidden to eat from. It separated us from God when Eve ate from that tree. So you might want to refresh your memory on the reading material on that from the beginning of the Holy Bible. If you dare to even open it for the first time EVER. It seems you spend too much time on reading maps then you do the Bible that might be your first hint that you may need to open it IMHO. You can be gay all you want to and I will be a Christian living my life for Jesus Christ for the rest of my life here on earth. See we all have made choices it is called freedom because God gave it to us before HE knew us in our Mother's womb.


What happened that you are not being so nice here anymore? Were you agitated from your friends postings to reply a not so good post to me? I know you can post better than what you have done here. You have been better Darcamani in posting your views IMHO.


Anywho God bless you!


Bree


Please notice the words without natural affection it may help you to understand!


Romans 1:[28] And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; [29] Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, [30] Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, [31] Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: [32] Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.





Brianna, there is still your interpretation and your "truth". Other Christians disagree. You haven't established why your interpretation of Scripture is superior to theirs.


The "sin" of homosexuality may be in your Bible, but it isn't in mine. There are abominations though. Check out Proverbs chapter six.


 

טז  שֶׁשׁ-הֵנָּה, שָׂנֵא יְהוָה;    וְשֶׁבַע, תועבות (תּוֹעֲבַת) נַפְשׁוֹ. 16 There are six things which the LORD hateth, yea, seven which are an abomination unto Him:
יז  עֵינַיִם רָמוֹת, לְשׁוֹן שָׁקֶר;    וְיָדַיִם, שֹׁפְכוֹת דָּם-נָקִי. 17 Haughty eyes, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood;
יח  לֵב--חֹרֵשׁ, מַחְשְׁבוֹת אָוֶן;    רַגְלַיִם מְמַהֲרוֹת, לָרוּץ לָרָעָה. 18 A heart that deviseth wicked thoughts, feet that are swift in running to evil;
יט  יָפִיחַ כְּזָבִים, עֵד שָׁקֶר;    וּמְשַׁלֵּחַ מְדָנִים, בֵּין אַחִים. 19 A false witness that breatheth out lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren

 


But as you can see, none of them include being gay.


As for you being a Christian and Dar being gay, well that's irrelevant. There's gay Christians and they are very close to their Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ. One has nothing to do with the other.


I've read my Bible and the New Testament both cover to cover many times. Let me tell you about your book of Romans...


I am not a murderer. I am not a fornicator. I love the Lord, my God. I envy no one. I do despise evil things and I abhor lying. I'm fairly sure we're all debating. I'm not terribly inventive of evil things and I have nothing to boast about. I am filled with mercy and compassion every day when I take care of the sick and no, that is not bragging, if anything it is a requirement to love my patients, even when they are hateful to me (that includes the Christians).


Yet according to you, I'm only worthy of death. I think you need to look at Proverbs and then look at your own words again.

The dwarves of yore made mighty spells,
While hammers fell like ringing bells
In places deep, where dark things sleep,
In hollow halls beneath the fells.

For ancient king and elvish lord
There many a gloaming golden hoard
They shaped and wrought, and light they caught
To hide in gems on hilt of sword.
- J.R.R. Tolkien
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3 years ago  ::  Mar 08, 2011 - 4:22PM #793
darcamani
Posts: 2,152

Briannarose;


My thinking and believing have nothing to do with my homosexuality. My sexuality simply is, my belief system and how I live with this gift is a choice.


This involves integrity, communication and daily practice, my lifestyle.


The fact I have a female mate is not about offending you or your god, I would be gay anyway.  My mate is chinese/buhddist never read the bible and is still gay.


Do you understand?


And yes;


I do not like being referred to as a sinner and an abomination .  I never called you anything vile and horrible. 


You called me that and more based upon ???  A book?


Hurt me, my family and made your spiritual practice/belief system very ugly to those targeted by you.  The damage is done.  I am trouble shooting and here for those who are silenced by fear and the hate you preach. 


You intentionally ignored my request to stop the madness  and bring kindness to the table. 


And you asked me where my friendlieness went?


My sons and I cried for you! I  got 3 phone calls from frightened christian gay teens(don't give yourself that credit, I am a mentor and minister) and had to explain again it is ok to be fully human.


No mistakes.  Just ignorance againrearing its' ugly head.


It is like me asking you over for dinner and you trashing my home for no reason.  It is not ok.


Darlene 


 

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3 years ago  ::  Mar 08, 2011 - 4:52PM #794
mainecaptain
Posts: 21,776

Mar 8, 2011 -- 3:26PM, TPaine wrote:


Mar 8, 2011 -- 4:34AM, Briannarose wrote:

You can use your wrong map if you like it just goes to show that you make mistakes as everyone else at sometime or another in their life. I don't need to go to the pulpit and preach for I am always spreading the Good News of Jesus Christ in many different ways that I am opportune to!



Did you ever stop to think that you may be the one with the wrong map? You don't have the answers, you only have your opinions, just as everyone else does. No one has ever been able to prove that a given religion (or lack thereof) is correct although many have tried and some have convinced others to follow them, but no one has ever presented actual proof that their beliefs are the ones that are right..





Although not a Christian, my Mother most certainly was, and she never once had a bad word for anyone. She never once called anyone an abomination.


My rule of thumb is, if it is not a beneficial, positive belief it is not worth pursuing.


The bigotry associated with believing gays are not a good thing, is not scriptural, but more then that. If it was scriptural, it would prove that it is not worth following. No system that causes the harm (and the hate)  this belief causes, is worthy of any consideration at all.


I wish people would think about that before they start preaching such rhetoric.


As has been stated and proved here, many Christians do not see homosexuality as a bad thing, know it is natural and people are born that way. And should be able to live naturally as they were born.

A tyrant must put on the appearance of uncommon devotion to religion. Subjects are less apprehensive of illegal treatment from a ruler whom they consider god-fearing and pious. On the other hand, they do less easily move against him, believing that he has the gods on his side. Aristotle
Never discourage anyone...who continually makes progress, no matter how slow. Plato..
"A life is not important except in the impact it has on other lives" Jackie Robinson
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3 years ago  ::  Mar 09, 2011 - 3:18PM #795
darcamani
Posts: 2,152

 Bree;


Now it is the season of Lent for self identified christians, time for remorse, repenting and making amends, practice and repeat.


Apology would be nice if sincere and ya quit the crap .


Do you know calling someone, anyone an, "abomination", means you find that human disgusting and loathe them? Does that make you feel good?


What actually do you find in yourself that you loathe and is disgusting?


Whatever it is, I am sorry for your loss.


Darlene


 


 

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3 years ago  ::  Mar 10, 2011 - 4:29PM #796
darcamani
Posts: 2,152

got to love.


Dare

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3 years ago  ::  Mar 10, 2011 - 4:55PM #797
mainecaptain
Posts: 21,776

Yes Dar, yes, got to love.


 


Can you imagine what a great world. If everyone put love first?

A tyrant must put on the appearance of uncommon devotion to religion. Subjects are less apprehensive of illegal treatment from a ruler whom they consider god-fearing and pious. On the other hand, they do less easily move against him, believing that he has the gods on his side. Aristotle
Never discourage anyone...who continually makes progress, no matter how slow. Plato..
"A life is not important except in the impact it has on other lives" Jackie Robinson
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3 years ago  ::  Mar 11, 2011 - 7:38AM #798
darcamani
Posts: 2,152

Mainecaptain;


Yes, love is powerful.


Love includes compassion and empathy. wonder, awe and joy.  It requires practice and is unconditional.


When faced by something beyond our control and unexplainable happenings, love is always a win win state of being.  


Love knows no  color, politics and religion, sexual orientation, gender, class, country. Does not come from books nor religion nor dogma. 


The words like "abomination" and "sinner" are words that come from fear and ignorance, no love.


Love comes from confidence and understanding.


My thoughts


Darlene


 


 

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3 years ago  ::  Mar 11, 2011 - 12:21PM #799
dblad
Posts: 1,674

And from the Bible, the book Bree uses to beat us over the head with...


Proverbs 10:12
Hatred stirs up dissension, but love covers over all wrongs. NIV


1 Corinthians 13:4-8 (New International Version, ©2011)


 4 Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5 It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6 Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7 It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.


 

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3 years ago  ::  Mar 22, 2011 - 6:02AM #800
darcamani
Posts: 2,152

I have to laugh. 


 Some give up hate for Lent? 


Happy to resume after Easter.


The Bible is silent on the topic of Lent and Easter too. It is not Christian!  These events were "christianized" because the Pagans refused to give up their very real knowledge of the change of seasons, the "christians" had to adapt!


Easter is Pagan, colored eggs, Pagan, celebrating spring...Pagan.


:)


The bible is silent about gay marriage, Easter, Lent, and twitter...


The man some refer to as Jesus, did not write one word about any of these events.  Non exisisted and was of no concern.


Dar


 


 


 


 

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