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Switch to Forum Live View Study showing physical differences between straights and gays
6 years ago  ::  Jun 17, 2008 - 7:42PM #1
Beautiful_Dreamer
Posts: 5,154
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/7456588.stm

Here's a study I found from another site. I actually remember reading a mention of something like this about twelve years ago, but the study I read about earlier was a university, privately-funded study. This isn't. But the findings are basically the same.

In short, there has been shown to be some differences in the brain structures of heterosexuals and homosexuals. Basically, the brain structures of heterosexual women and homosexual men are more closely aligned than male homosexuals and male heterosexuals...and lesbians' brain structures are more like that of straight men than straight women. I hope I said this clearly, I'm a bit distracted. :)

I know a lot of you believe that orientation is not chosen (I do as well), but I found this study interesting, something saying it is not chosen and with the science to back it up.  Unfortunately, I know that some of the hard-core haters won't be changed by this information because they usually distrust science to such a large extent already and refuse to listen to anything that is not explicitly written in the Bible, but perhaps some of the fence-sitters will lean more.

And before any fundies try to discredit the sources or studies, the BBC isn't exactly a tabloid network, and Swedish medicine isn't exactly made up of voodoo spells. So fundies are going to have to find something else to say.

I just thought you all would find this interesting.
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6 years ago  ::  Jun 17, 2008 - 8:10PM #2
JoeRoyce
Posts: 75
Even though, from what I read, this study was designed to measure things that were very unlikely to be affected by learning, I predict most anti-gay folks will come along and try to claim that being gay caused the differences in the brain like they try to do with the ram's brain study from a while back.
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6 years ago  ::  Jun 17, 2008 - 8:19PM #3
REteach
Posts: 14,551
The problem with claiming the activity makes the difference is that there are other differences--visual spatial skills, chance of left-handedness, otoacoustic emissions, finger length ratios, etc, that seem to be related to hormone exposures, not just the brain alone.
I know you believe you understand what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize what you heard was not what I meant...
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6 years ago  ::  Jun 17, 2008 - 8:32PM #4
mlarue75
Posts: 1,199
[QUOTE=REteach;569547]The problem with claiming the activity makes the difference is that there are other differences--visual spatial skills, chance of left-handedness, otoacoustic emissions, finger length ratios, etc, that seem to be related to hormone exposures, not just the brain alone.[/QUOTE]

I just can't wait till someone develops a gene therapy to "cure" us or a prenatal test to keep us from being born in the first place.  Think of the art, music and literature, not to mention the wonderful human beings, that will never come to be.
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6 years ago  ::  Jun 18, 2008 - 8:10AM #5
Beautiful_Dreamer
Posts: 5,154

JoeRoyce wrote:

Even though, from what I read, this study was designed to measure things that were very unlikely to be affected by learning, I predict most anti-gay folks will come along and try to claim that being gay caused the differences in the brain like they try to do with the ram's brain study from a while back.




Um, ram's brain study? What is that? I'm sorry, I must have missed that one.

But how is it possible that our behavior can change something such as our brain structure? I can see being able to change hormone balances or something like that, but actual stucture? I have heard some say they thought the behavior changed the structure, but I don't see how that could be. But then, I am not in the medical field.

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6 years ago  ::  Jun 18, 2008 - 11:09AM #6
Zachguy18
Posts: 191
[QUOTE=Beautiful_Dreamer;570375]Um, ram's brain study? What is that? I'm sorry, I must have missed that one.

But how is it possible that our behavior can change something such as our brain structure? I can see being able to change hormone balances or something like that, but actual stucture? I have heard some say they thought the behavior changed the structure, but I don't see how that could be. But then, I am not in the medical field.[/QUOTE]

The point is that it's not medically possible.  But fundamentalists will go to any lengths to prove that people aren't born homosexual... because if people ARE born homosexual, then the supposedly-perfectly-translated-because-it's-"protected"-by-God-Bible isn't perfectly translated, which means that the entire thing must be thrown away (Baby with the bathwater?)

So... yeah.
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6 years ago  ::  Jun 18, 2008 - 4:26PM #7
MedKit77
Posts: 1,384
Unfortunately, no matter how much scientific evidence there is to support the fact that homosexuality is as natural for homosexuals as heterosexuality is for heterosexuals, there will always be some people who will refuse to accept that.

Facts don't convince them when they conflict with their mythology of CHOICE.

And so far as genetic tests on fetii to determine whether or not they are gay (or have any other "undesirable" trait) - I just hope that that is one path that the human race doesn't go down.
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6 years ago  ::  Jun 18, 2008 - 4:29PM #8
mlarue75
Posts: 1,199
[QUOTE=MedKit77;571410]Unfortunately, no matter how much scientific evidence there is to support the fact that homosexuality is as natural for homosexuals as heterosexuality is for heterosexuals, there will always be some people who will refuse to accept that.

Facts don't convince them when they conflict with their mythology of CHOICE.

And so far as genetic tests on fetii to determine whether or not they are gay (or have any other "undesirable" trait) - I just hope that that is one path that the human race doesn't go down.[/QUOTE]

Yes, well....some of us are bisexual.  Everybody hates us!
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6 years ago  ::  Jun 18, 2008 - 8:41PM #9
appy20
Posts: 10,165
They have located a gene that is passed on by the mother that causes homosexual males in families that have more than one homosexual male in them.  It is most likely not the only genetic trait but is just one that is presently identifiable.  They don't have that for women. Yet..

Lesbians are exposed to more testosterone during their prenatal years.  However, that is complicated.  There are straight women that are exposed too.  For instance the finger ratio thing.  In one badly done study, it was found that lesbians have forefingers shorter than one of their other fingers (I forget which fingers were involved).  The problem with the study is that 60% of the entire female population have fingers with the same configuration yet 60% of all women are not lesbian.  Some of the media jumped to the conclusion that Lesbianism could be proven by finger length when only a very small percentage (even in the ridiculous study) have differences. 

There was a miscarriage drug used in the fifties that increased the amount of testosterone in the womb and supposedly caused women to be either lesbian or tomboy.  The tomboy women were not at all sexually attracted to females.  However, they do have a lot of other male characteristics. 

Hormones do affect fetuses but they are not the entire story.  Apparently, there are some architectural differences not related only to hormone exposure.  Things like spatial ability, aggressiveness, perhaps even being stimulated visually is affected by that hormone exposure but outright sexual attraction seems to be more complicated, even on a genetic level.

The evidence for biological causes of homosexuality is overwhelming and only the most ignorant would deny it.  The bottom  line is that people have a right to be whatever they are born to be. It is natural.  Perfectly natural.  It happens in the animal world.  If there is a God, and I believe that there is, He is perfectly aware and unoffended by this.  Afterall, He designed us and from everything else one finds in the natural world, it is obvious, He likes diversity.   People who would choose their offspring based on sexual orientation are perhaps better off not breeding in the first place.  Homosexuality is not an illness.  It is merely a natural variation.
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6 years ago  ::  Jun 19, 2008 - 1:04AM #10
MedKit77
Posts: 1,384
[QUOTE=mlarue75;571419]Yes, well....some of us are bisexual.  Everybody hates us![/QUOTE]

I don't hate you. :p

And I don't think anyone can control who they are attracted to.

It's my OPINION that we're ALL bisexual - but we've been programmed (by the media, by religion, by society) not to act on our attraction if it's perceived as "different" than the "norm." After all, most of us form tight bonds with friends of the same gender.
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