Switch to Forum Live View California same sex marriage
|5 years ago :: Jun 28, 2008 - 12:51PM #81|
[QUOTE=REteach;592617]Ironic, given how many Christians don't think Mormons are anything but another crazy sect. The anniversary of Joseph Smith's death at the hands of a mob was just this last week. One might think the Mormons could have learned something from their own history of persecution.
For that matter, Catholics were persecuted in the US colonies as well. Still more failure to get that whole "Do unto others" thing.
Jesus was a genius, too bad we can't learn from him.[/QUOTE]
I actually tend to think Mormonism is a little ridiculous, but I'm not sure about cult-lke. Especially since there's similar horror stories for Wiccans, and... honestly, my personal experience has shown me that those horror stories are basically fundamentalist fabrications designed to color something entirely different from what it is.
EDIT: And there I go, finishing before I actually address the point of your post.
Yeah, I'm starting to think that the best people for persecuting Christians are, ironically, Christians.
|5 years ago :: Jul 14, 2008 - 3:45PM #82|
[QUOTE=sistapoetry;530153]This isn't civil rights...[/QUOTE]
In your opinion.
[QUOTE=sistapoetry;530153]This is very very upsetting for me..[/QUOTE]
Why? How, specifically, has my marriage 'hurt' you? Have you lost any civil rights because i am married? Please explain your 'upset'. We find it very curious.
[QUOTE=sistapoetry;530153]I'm not a perfect kind of Catholic..[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=sistapoetry;530153]but I can tell that this world has become more worldly than anything else.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=sistapoetry;530153]God is being pushed out of his own creation.[/QUOTE]
Not hardly. I was married in my church.
[QUOTE=sistapoetry;530153]Homosexuality is a choice.[/QUOTE]
That is not true.
[QUOTE=sistapoetry;530153]It wasn't my choice to be born black.[/QUOTE]
And we assure you (or at least, we would assure you but you don't seem to want to be 'assured') that likewise, it was not our 'choice' to be born gay.
[QUOTE=sistapoetry;530153]Yes we all know someone that is gay..but that doesn't mean that you have to be for it or condone this.[/QUOTE]
If God is 'for' us, who shall be against us? You don't have to "condone" anything; it's the State who's (equal) recognition we seek.
[QUOTE=sistapoetry;530153]I can respect a gay person for what they choose.[/QUOTE]
Again, we do not "choose" to be gay, and what you type is far from 'respectful'. If you can "respect" gay people, we don't you?
[QUOTE=sistapoetry;530153]but I am deeply against same sex marriage and gay couples adopting children.[/QUOTE]
And I am deeply against convicted rapists and convicted child molesters being allowed to (heterosexually) marry and have or adopt children. But - horror of horrors - they CAN and do both.
[QUOTE=sistapoetry;530153]All of this that they are doing in California is going to blow up in everybody's faces.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, that pesky Constitution shure seems to be getting in the way of your pursuit of happiness. Too bad you don't seem to see it applying to all Americans.
|5 years ago :: Jul 14, 2008 - 3:53PM #83|
[QUOTE=sistapoetry;530176]..because Catholics don't agree with this (same-sex marriage)[/QUOTE]
That is very debatable. According to the pew Forum, only 48% of Catholics oppose it.
[QUOTE=sistapoetry;530176]I have a gay aunt..and I love her to death..but I will not attend her wedding if she chooses to marry her partner.[/QUOTE]
That's some love you show your aunt.
[QUOTE=sistapoetry;530176]I can't believe the rest of you on here are Catholic..I find that very hard to believe[/QUOTE]
It is a board to debate the Catholic stance/viewpoint on the issue. It is not restricted to Catholics. How narrow of you to think otherwise.
|5 years ago :: Jul 14, 2008 - 4:04PM #84|
[QUOTE=marbleartgirl;531656]apparently the 61 percent of the population who voted against this can now see that their appearance at the polls just didn't count.[/QUOTE]
Let's look at this another way: if 61% of the population had voted to not allow blacks to attend "white" schools, would you be okay with that and to heck with the Constitution? How about inter-racial marriage? (Don't forget that alhough the ban on IR marriages was lifted federally in 1967, it took the State of Alabama until 2000 to actually lift their ban - and even then, 40% of the population was against it.) Sometimes the 'majority' can get it wrong and run roughshod over the rights of the minority. The Courts are there to ensure it doesn't happen. And they did their job.
[QUOTE=marbleartgirl;531656]Talk about a violation of rights! How is it possible to put something on a ballot, get a majority vote, then have a judge over rule the will of the people?[/QUOTE]
See above explanation for exactly how (and why). Oh, and it wasn't "a judge" it was a majority of judges (appointed by Republicans, btw). Also, don't forget taht the CA legislature voted TWICE! to lift the ban.
[QUOTE=marbleartgirl;531656]I would have the same issue with this if the majority had voted for same sex marriage before finding out that it was somehow against the constitution. I absolutely have had it when a vocal minority whines, stomps feet, goes to court, etc. until they get their way.[/QUOTE]
The second sentence seems to contradict the first one.
[QUOTE=marbleartgirl;531656]I just think that if it goes up for a vote and loses, the game should be over.[/QUOTE]
Mildred Loving would disagree with you. As would Martin Luther King Jr., Nelson Mandela, Coretta Scott King, and a slew of others. In your worldview, just qwho, exactly, will protect minorities from the tyranny of the majority in America?
|5 years ago :: Jul 14, 2008 - 4:07PM #85|
[QUOTE=REteach;531946]The interesting thing about the US is that we have "checks and balances". This is to prevent abuses by the majority.
You know, in a lot of the US colonies and then states, Catholics could not vote or hold public office! The majorities, Protestants all, didn't think Catholics should have full citizenship. You really want to go back to that?[/QUOTE]
In Ontario, there was a time when Catholics could not marry. Nor could blacks or Jews.
|5 years ago :: Jul 14, 2008 - 4:18PM #86|
Talk about yer selective memory ...
[QUOTE=marbleartgirl;532487]Wow! I like totally understand your posts! [/QUOTE]
You don't seem to have even read them, let alone 'understood' them.
[QUOTE=marbleartgirl;532487]I mean, we here in Cal so better understand what is right than everyone else in the country.[/QUOTE]
Did you forget about Massachusetts?
[QUOTE=marbleartgirl;532487]We should totally negate the majority vote![/QUOTE]
Or, the 'majority' could learn to respect the Constitution.
[QUOTE=marbleartgirl;532487] We should over- rule everyone's opinion [/QUOTE]
"Everyone's"??? So, the minority no longer are even allowed to have an opinion? U 2 funnee.
[QUOTE=marbleartgirl;532487]yada yada yada have no idea of what is correct for the world.[/QUOTE]
Clearly you believe discrimination and unequal treatment before the law is "correct". pardon us if many o fus disagree.
[QUOTE=marbleartgirl;532487] Therefore, we should get the judges to tell the "uninformed" what is right.[/QUOTE]
No, they tell you what is Un-Constitutional. There's a difference.
[QUOTE=marbleartgirl;532487] Isn't that what a democracy is all about? [/QUOTE]
Do you need to be reminded that America is a Constitutional Republic, not a "democracy"?
[QUOTE=marbleartgirl;532487] I guess that is why this country is so "undivided".[/QUOTE]
The blame for America's 'division' can (and should) be squarely placed on the shoulders of your current 'Decider-in-Chief'. Oh, and probably also on the shoulders of the Vice-Decider, you know, the one with the out lesbian pregnant daughter.
[QUOTE=marbleartgirl;532487] I guess that is why Gore lost in Fla.[/QUOTE]
Actually, that dark, shameful incident in America's past belongs squarely on the shoulders of - GASP! - an activist judge.
[QUOTE=marbleartgirl;532487] I am so proud that the smart ones told us what we believed and re-elected Bush.[/QUOTE]
Considering that he wasn't "elected" the first time, he could hardly be "re-elected".
[QUOTE=marbleartgirl;532487]My bad- I totally thought that in the U.S. that someone's vote actually counted.[/QUOTE]
When they're alligned with the 'promises' in the constitution on voter referendums, then they rightly are.
[QUOTE=marbleartgirl;532487] Ironically, the SF Chron. did a recent poll- the majority would have voted for same sex marriage.[/QUOTE]
And tell us, would you have "accepted" it then?
[QUOTE=marbleartgirl;532487] the contentiousness would have gone the way of the buffalo. [/QUOTE]
Somehow, I don't believe that. I think PLUs (People Like U) would still come here and post their vitriol.
|5 years ago :: Jul 14, 2008 - 4:25PM #87|
[QUOTE=sistapoetry;532517]I still stand by my beliefs.[/QUOTE]
Selectively, apparently. And you are welcome to do so.
[QUOTE=sistapoetry;532517]and to the person that said that this church is in the dark ages and that most Catholics don't follow everything...[/QUOTE]
That person ws right. Demonstrably. To whit ...
[QUOTE=sistapoetry;532517]I don't agree with everything about the Catholic church but there are somethings I stand strongly by...I am against abortion...I am against gay marriage..and I am for birth control.[/QUOTE]
See? Even YOU don't accept everything your Church teaches. Selective fundamentalism never won any arguments.
[QUOTE=sistapoetry;532517]I bet you would think differently about same sex marriage if these people were around your children.[/QUOTE]
Are you implying gay people (i.e. "these people") are ipso facto child molesters? I do believe that is against the ROCs, not to mention totally untrue. Isn't bearing false witness a "sin" in your Church anymore? Do some research (no, not the "Family" "Research" council kind) and you will find gay people are just as good at parenting as heterosexuals.
[QUOTE=sistapoetry;532517]I am more open minded than you think.[/QUOTE]
Why on earth would you think that we think you're not open minded? ROTFLMAO.
[QUOTE=sistapoetry;532517]I can't say that I'm perfect..because I have sinned and I have learned from many mistakes..but nobody is going to change my love for God..I've been through more than you know...most people if they lived my life..they would of killed themselves..God has gotten me through so much and I will not shut him out of everything I do..for no one...I have friends from many religions..even atheist people are my friends..I used to date someone that was muslim and planned to marry that person...[/QUOTE]
What has any of this to do with same-sex marriage in California?
|5 years ago :: Jul 14, 2008 - 4:33PM #88|
[QUOTE=sistapoetry;532534] for the person that says that the Catholic church doesn't teach that homosexuality is a sin...Um..what Bible are you reading exactly?....because I learned it was a sin when I went to private school as a little girl.[/QUOTE]
Maybe you should have paid a bit more attention then. The RCC teaches that homosexual ACTS (note: NOT the homosexual person) are "disordered". I don't believe the RCC teaches that the inherent state of being homosexual (i.e. a homosexual orientation, aka "homosexuality") is a "sin".
[QUOTE=sistapoetry;532517] I said that It wasn't my choice to be born black..puleeze...What is my race a disease or something?[/QUOTE]
Well, pretty much all of what you post makes homosexuality out to be a "choice" and a "disease" (or at the very least something that needs to be cured 'cuz it's not "right"). Physician heal thyself.
[QUOTE=sistapoetry;532517]This is one of the dumbest conversations I have ever had.[/QUOTE]
Agreed. So stop contributing to the 'dumbness'.
[QUOTE=sistapoetry;532517]I just don't agree with a priest marrying a gay couple.[/QUOTE]
And none are required to.
[QUOTE=sistapoetry;532517]I said that I have respect for anyone that is gay.[/QUOTE]
Saying it and actually having it are 2 separate things.
[QUOTE=sistapoetry;532517]I just don't agree with them getting married.[/QUOTE]
And I said I don't agree with convicted rapists and child-molesters getting married and having kids. But they are allowed to. And they do. What we 'agree' with and 'disagree' with are mere bones of contention, not solid bases on which to establish law.
[QUOTE=sistapoetry;532517]Have you ever heard of Sodom and Gomorrah..[/QUOTE]
Yes. And we probably know a lot more about it than you do. I'll bet you even 'think' the sin of Sodom was homosexuality. Ezekiel says you are wrong if you do. "It's in the bible..that object that you probably haven't looked at in many years...Puleeze."
|5 years ago :: Jul 14, 2008 - 4:47PM #89|
[QUOTE=angpuppy;537374]I won't say this isn't a concern. There is a potential here for homosexual couples who are baptized Catholic and even enrolled in a Catholic Church to try to file lawsuits against the Catholic Church or the diocese for refusing to marry them. This would simply mean an economic strain for now. However, there have been cases where the State is forcing Catholic organizations to choose between either allowing gay couples to adopt from them or to not offer an adoption service at all. The same is true with contraceptive coverage when you're employed by a Catholic institution.
I'd say its more of a burden though than something to be seriously frightened over.[/QUOTE]
The "potential" you fear is imaginary. Let's try an experiment...
'There is a potential here for divorced people who are baptized Catholic and even enrolled in a Catholic Church to try to file lawsuits against the Catholic Church or the diocese for refusing to marry them.'
all I did was replace "homosexual couples" with "divorced people". That hasn't happened, an dif and when it does, the RCC can feel free to dismiss divorced people's relationships as breezily as they dismiss gay people's.
s for the adoption agency, if they gorego taxpayers' dollars, they can do as they wish. 'Til then though ...
|5 years ago :: Jul 14, 2008 - 11:34PM #90|
I'm just wondering.... now that gays have been allowed to marry for about a month now.... has society started to fall apart yet?
Dave - Just a Man in the Mountains.
I am a Humanist. I believe in a rational philosophy of life, informed by science, inspired by art, and motivated by a desire to do good for its own sake and not by an expectation of a reward or fear of punishment in an afterlife.