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5 years ago  ::  Feb 10, 2009 - 8:00PM #11
mytmouse57
Posts: 9,767

REteach wrote:

According to the FBI hate crime reports for 2007, only Denver, with 5, had more hate crimes based on sexual orientation than Colorado Springs, with 3.   

In 2007, Denver had 588,000 people.  Colorado Springs had 402,000.  So, the home of Focus on the Family has doesn't seem to be doing much to decrease hate crimes.

Of course, these are just the ones reported and recorded.  Not everyone wants to share humiliation.


Three crimes for a community the size of Colorado Springs is actually pretty good. But, anyway, what does any of that have to do with FOF, other than you apparenlty trying to create an objective argument out of a huge non-sequitor?

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5 years ago  ::  Feb 10, 2009 - 8:10PM #12
mytmouse57
Posts: 9,767

dblad wrote:

[FONT=Formata-Bold]Here are some of the hateful lies that founder James Dobson publishes and preaches... all quotes can be found in the sources quoted at the end of this [/FONT][FONT=Formata-Bold]pamphlet ... http://www.soulforce.org/pdf/false_focus.pdf[/FONT]


[FONT=Formata-Bold]Focus on the Family says:[/FONT]


[FONT=Utopia-Regular]“What do we know about this disorder? Well first, it is a disorder, despite the[/FONT]
[FONT=Utopia-Regular]denials of the American Psychiatric Association.”[/FONT][FONT=Utopia-Regular]2[/FONT]


[FONT=Utopia-Regular]“Contrary to claims by gay activists, homosexually active persons as a group[/FONT]
[FONT=Utopia-Regular]appear to be less psychologically healthy than the general population.”[/FONT][FONT=Utopia-Regular]3[/FONT]


[FONT=Utopia-Regular]“The mother is over-emotionally involved, a dominate, strong personality . . .[/FONT]
[FONT=Utopia-Regular]the father is quiet, withdrawn, non-expressive, and/or hostile.”[/FONT][FONT=Utopia-Regular]4[/FONT]


[FONT=Utopia-Regular]“I’ve never met a homosexual man that had a loving respectful relationship[/FONT]
[FONT=Utopia-Regular]with his father.”[/FONT][FONT=Utopia-Regular]5[/FONT]


[FONT=Utopia-Regular]“I have never seen a male with a homosexual problem think fondly of his older [/FONT][FONT=Utopia-Regular]brother . . . I’ve never heard that . . . never do hear it.”[/FONT][FONT=Utopia-Regular]6[/FONT]



[FONT=Utopia-Regular]“Homosexuality is a gender identity disorder.”[/FONT]
[FONT=Utopia-Regular]7[/FONT]



[FONT=Utopia-Regular]“There is no such thing as a homosexual . . . We are all heterosexual, but some [/FONT][FONT=Utopia-Regular]heterosexuals have a homosexual problem.”[/FONT][FONT=Utopia-Regular]8[/FONT]




[FONT=Utopia-Regular]“Homosexual behavior is always prompted by an inner state of emptiness.”[/FONT]
[FONT=Utopia-Regular]9[/FONT]



[FONT=Utopia-Regular]“Homosexuality is about a sense of self. Homosexuality is a masculine[/FONT]

[FONT=Utopia-Regular]inferiority. Homosexual behavior is about striving to connect with the lost masculinity [/FONT][FONT=Utopia-Regular]within the self.”[/FONT][FONT=Utopia-Regular]10[/FONT]






[FONT=Utopia-Regular]“A little prehomosexual boy came home from school and said ‘Mom, we are[/FONT]

[FONT=Utopia-Regular]doing a play at school, and I am playing the part of the father.’ The mother got [/FONT][FONT=Utopia-Regular]angry and said, ‘You go back and tell them you want a speaking part.’”[/FONT][FONT=Utopia-Regular]11[/FONT]






[FONT=Utopia-Regular]“Any incident that happens to place a particular strain on the relationship[/FONT]

[FONT=Utopia-Regular]between the child and the parent of the same sex is potentially causative.”[/FONT][FONT=Utopia-Regular]12[/FONT]






[FONT=Utopia-Regular]“Male homosexuality is a developmental problem that is almost always the[/FONT]


[FONT=Utopia-Regular]result of problems in family relations, particularly between father and son.”[/FONT][FONT=Utopia-Regular]13[/FONT]


[FONT=Utopia-Regular]If you believe these lies, it is because you want to![/FONT]



.


I don't agree with all of that, but I'm willing to bet that there's more truth to much of it than gay activists groups would want us to believe. For example, I am aware that there has been some objective research emerge suggesting that in spite of social setting (in other words, even in an "accepting, supportive" evironment) homosexuals still apparenlty suffer from unusually high rates of depression and similar problems.

Plus, I would not agree that all gays are that way because of environmental/emotional factors (such as a boy with some wierd Daddy complex) but I would certianly say some people who identify as gay are "gay" because of such circumstances or influences. Now, where I part ways with Dobson is he seems unwilling/unable to admit that any homosexual people are born that way, when clearly, there is overwhelming evidence that some people are born that way.

What it boils down to, IMO, is that much of the "science" that has been thrown at this subject so far is soft, or social science. Yet, people on both sides want to talk about it as if it's hard science, like physics, chemistry or evolutionary biology. And I think gay rights groups can be just as guilty of playing fast and loose with the "facts" on this matter as Dobson has been.

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5 years ago  ::  Feb 10, 2009 - 8:16PM #13
REteach
Posts: 13,548
Hmmm.

Show me the caucasian gene.
I know you believe you understand what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize what you heard was not what I meant...
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5 years ago  ::  Feb 10, 2009 - 8:19PM #14
mytmouse57
Posts: 9,767

dblad wrote:

Of course you are completely un-biased and open-minded when it comes to these reports... DON'T MAKE ME LAUGH.

All you have to offer is your own biased opinion.... ahhh ha ha ... gag..

.


You're free to think anything you wish about me, but fanciful assumptions about a person you've never met don't make for objective evidence.

But, for the record -- I'm not completely naive or uneducated when it comes to radical right-wing or "hate" groups. I've long had an academic interest in what are currently called "hate" groups -- and have done quite a bit of reading and/or had first-hand experience talking with or interviewing members of groups that objective sources -- such as the FBI -- put into the "hate" or dangerously radical category. Some have included The Militia of Montana, Aryan Nations and Aryan Church of the Creator.

So again, I ask, can you provide an objective opinion -- from the FBI or a similar source, that would classify FOF as a dangerously radical or "hate" group?

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5 years ago  ::  Feb 10, 2009 - 8:21PM #15
mytmouse57
Posts: 9,767

REteach wrote:

Hmmm.

Show me the caucasian gene.


I'm sure there are many caucasian guys named Gene.

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5 years ago  ::  Feb 10, 2009 - 8:00PM #16
mytmouse57
Posts: 9,767

REteach wrote:

According to the FBI hate crime reports for 2007, only Denver, with 5, had more hate crimes based on sexual orientation than Colorado Springs, with 3.   

In 2007, Denver had 588,000 people.  Colorado Springs had 402,000.  So, the home of Focus on the Family has doesn't seem to be doing much to decrease hate crimes.

Of course, these are just the ones reported and recorded.  Not everyone wants to share humiliation.


Three crimes for a community the size of Colorado Springs is actually pretty good. But, anyway, what does any of that have to do with FOF, other than you apparenlty trying to create an objective argument out of a huge non-sequitor?

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5 years ago  ::  Feb 10, 2009 - 8:10PM #17
mytmouse57
Posts: 9,767

dblad wrote:

[FONT=Formata-Bold]Here are some of the hateful lies that founder James Dobson publishes and preaches... all quotes can be found in the sources quoted at the end of this [/FONT][FONT=Formata-Bold]pamphlet ... http://www.soulforce.org/pdf/false_focus.pdf[/FONT]


[FONT=Formata-Bold]Focus on the Family says:[/FONT]


[FONT=Utopia-Regular]“What do we know about this disorder? Well first, it is a disorder, despite the[/FONT]
[FONT=Utopia-Regular]denials of the American Psychiatric Association.”[/FONT][FONT=Utopia-Regular]2[/FONT]


[FONT=Utopia-Regular]“Contrary to claims by gay activists, homosexually active persons as a group[/FONT]
[FONT=Utopia-Regular]appear to be less psychologically healthy than the general population.”[/FONT][FONT=Utopia-Regular]3[/FONT]


[FONT=Utopia-Regular]“The mother is over-emotionally involved, a dominate, strong personality . . .[/FONT]
[FONT=Utopia-Regular]the father is quiet, withdrawn, non-expressive, and/or hostile.”[/FONT][FONT=Utopia-Regular]4[/FONT]


[FONT=Utopia-Regular]“I’ve never met a homosexual man that had a loving respectful relationship[/FONT]
[FONT=Utopia-Regular]with his father.”[/FONT][FONT=Utopia-Regular]5[/FONT]


[FONT=Utopia-Regular]“I have never seen a male with a homosexual problem think fondly of his older [/FONT][FONT=Utopia-Regular]brother . . . I’ve never heard that . . . never do hear it.”[/FONT][FONT=Utopia-Regular]6[/FONT]



[FONT=Utopia-Regular]“Homosexuality is a gender identity disorder.”[/FONT]
[FONT=Utopia-Regular]7[/FONT]



[FONT=Utopia-Regular]“There is no such thing as a homosexual . . . We are all heterosexual, but some [/FONT][FONT=Utopia-Regular]heterosexuals have a homosexual problem.”[/FONT][FONT=Utopia-Regular]8[/FONT]




[FONT=Utopia-Regular]“Homosexual behavior is always prompted by an inner state of emptiness.”[/FONT]
[FONT=Utopia-Regular]9[/FONT]



[FONT=Utopia-Regular]“Homosexuality is about a sense of self. Homosexuality is a masculine[/FONT]

[FONT=Utopia-Regular]inferiority. Homosexual behavior is about striving to connect with the lost masculinity [/FONT][FONT=Utopia-Regular]within the self.”[/FONT][FONT=Utopia-Regular]10[/FONT]






[FONT=Utopia-Regular]“A little prehomosexual boy came home from school and said ‘Mom, we are[/FONT]

[FONT=Utopia-Regular]doing a play at school, and I am playing the part of the father.’ The mother got [/FONT][FONT=Utopia-Regular]angry and said, ‘You go back and tell them you want a speaking part.’”[/FONT][FONT=Utopia-Regular]11[/FONT]






[FONT=Utopia-Regular]“Any incident that happens to place a particular strain on the relationship[/FONT]

[FONT=Utopia-Regular]between the child and the parent of the same sex is potentially causative.”[/FONT][FONT=Utopia-Regular]12[/FONT]






[FONT=Utopia-Regular]“Male homosexuality is a developmental problem that is almost always the[/FONT]


[FONT=Utopia-Regular]result of problems in family relations, particularly between father and son.”[/FONT][FONT=Utopia-Regular]13[/FONT]


[FONT=Utopia-Regular]If you believe these lies, it is because you want to![/FONT]



.


I don't agree with all of that, but I'm willing to bet that there's more truth to much of it than gay activists groups would want us to believe. For example, I am aware that there has been some objective research emerge suggesting that in spite of social setting (in other words, even in an "accepting, supportive" evironment) homosexuals still apparenlty suffer from unusually high rates of depression and similar problems.

Plus, I would not agree that all gays are that way because of environmental/emotional factors (such as a boy with some wierd Daddy complex) but I would certianly say some people who identify as gay are "gay" because of such circumstances or influences. Now, where I part ways with Dobson is he seems unwilling/unable to admit that any homosexual people are born that way, when clearly, there is overwhelming evidence that some people are born that way.

What it boils down to, IMO, is that much of the "science" that has been thrown at this subject so far is soft, or social science. Yet, people on both sides want to talk about it as if it's hard science, like physics, chemistry or evolutionary biology. And I think gay rights groups can be just as guilty of playing fast and loose with the "facts" on this matter as Dobson has been.

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5 years ago  ::  Feb 10, 2009 - 8:16PM #18
REteach
Posts: 13,548
Hmmm.

Show me the caucasian gene.
I know you believe you understand what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize what you heard was not what I meant...
Quick Reply
Cancel
5 years ago  ::  Feb 10, 2009 - 8:19PM #19
mytmouse57
Posts: 9,767

dblad wrote:

Of course you are completely un-biased and open-minded when it comes to these reports... DON'T MAKE ME LAUGH.

All you have to offer is your own biased opinion.... ahhh ha ha ... gag..

.


You're free to think anything you wish about me, but fanciful assumptions about a person you've never met don't make for objective evidence.

But, for the record -- I'm not completely naive or uneducated when it comes to radical right-wing or "hate" groups. I've long had an academic interest in what are currently called "hate" groups -- and have done quite a bit of reading and/or had first-hand experience talking with or interviewing members of groups that objective sources -- such as the FBI -- put into the "hate" or dangerously radical category. Some have included The Militia of Montana, Aryan Nations and Aryan Church of the Creator.

So again, I ask, can you provide an objective opinion -- from the FBI or a similar source, that would classify FOF as a dangerously radical or "hate" group?

Quick Reply
Cancel
5 years ago  ::  Feb 10, 2009 - 8:21PM #20
mytmouse57
Posts: 9,767

REteach wrote:

Hmmm.

Show me the caucasian gene.


I'm sure there are many caucasian guys named Gene.

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