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Switch to Forum Live View As A Gay, Would You Support This?
6 years ago  ::  Oct 31, 2007 - 11:44AM #1
itsacrucifiction
Posts: 2,687
Let me begin by saying, the purpose of this topic is NOT to debate abortion. This topic came up in the abortion forums and I thought it would be interesting to debate here.

The question is, if a gay gene were discovered, such that the presence of the gay gene could be detected in a zygote, embryo of fetus (or by amniocentesis, for example), would you support a woman's choice to abort solely due to the presence of the gay gene?

I argued yes I would support that choice, even though I am gay. Why? In order for us to be gay, we must have the freedom to make our sexual choices, even though others in our society disagree with out sexual choices. Likewise, if a woman is to have freedom to make the choice of abortion, she must also have the freedom to make her choices, even though others may disagree with her choices. The minute I restrict her choice to abort a gay unborn, I open the door for others to restrict my sexual choices with respect to homosexuality.

So for me, I argue aborting due to presence of the gay gene is a freedom issue, even though I personally find it to be appalling, just as some in our society find my homosexuality to be appalling. The opinions of others, including myself, is not a valid reason to restrict freedoms.

Do you agree, yes or no?
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6 years ago  ::  Oct 31, 2007 - 12:36PM #2
BetteTheRedde
Posts: 2,325

itsacrucifiction wrote:

So for me, I argue aborting due to presence of the gay gene is a freedom issue, even though I personally find it to be appalling, just as some in our society find my homosexuality to be appalling. The opinions of others, including myself, is not a valid reason to restrict freedoms.

Do you agree, yes or no?



As the mother of two bi kids (who can't imagine them as other than themselves as they are), I would reluctantly support this as a legitimate freedom. It's also a legitimate freedom to abort by gender, and look at the mess that China is getting themselves into over THAT.

Interference at this level tends to have unintended consequences. Look at bunnies in Australia. :rolleyes:

It's moot, anyway. It appears almost certain that there's no gay 'gene' per se. And messing with in vitro hormones would be interference at a level that I personally wouldn't tolerate.

"Sometimes they are referred to as the 'radical Right.' But the fact is that there is nothing radical about them. They offer no novel solutions to the problems that plague them; indeed, they offer no solutions at all. They are immensely discontented with things as they are and furiously impatient with almost everyone in public office who can in any way be held responsible for their frustrations. But it cannot be said that they hold any clearly stated objectives or have any specific program either in common or individuals. They are fundamentally and temperamentally 'aginners.' And perhaps the commonest characteristic among them is anger. They can fairly be called, if nothing else, the Rampageous Right."

Alan Barth, New York Times, November 26, 1961
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6 years ago  ::  Oct 31, 2007 - 12:39PM #3
itsacrucifiction
Posts: 2,687
[QUOTE=BetteTheRedde;35919]
It's also a legitimate freedom to abort by gender, and look at the mess that China is getting themselves into over THAT.[/QUOTE]

That is due to China's insane policies. I am sure you agree forcing abortion is ridiculous as forciing birth.
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6 years ago  ::  Oct 31, 2007 - 12:49PM #4
ToujoursDan
Posts: 1,065
I think homosexuality is biological in origin, but I don't think they'll ever find a single gay gene they can use as a marker. It's probably similar to left-handedness.
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6 years ago  ::  Oct 31, 2007 - 1:24PM #5
itsacrucifiction
Posts: 2,687
[QUOTE=ToujoursDan;35951]I think homosexuality is biological in origin, but I don't think they'll ever find a single gay gene they can use as a marker. It's probably similar to left-handedness.[/QUOTE]

I agree, but then, I am left-handed too. However, IF such a gene were discovered and it did become possible, would you support the freedom of choice should a woman choose to abort speficially for the presence of homosexuality? Not that you would find it morally proper, but would you support her freedom of choice, even if you did not agree with the reasons behind her choice?
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6 years ago  ::  Oct 31, 2007 - 3:51PM #6
REteach
Posts: 13,195
Healthy kids are already being aborted for being the wrong gender.

I recently was talking to a woman in my clinic with Down syndrome, mild MR.  She asked my why she wasn't normal, and I don't think she was asking about biological development.  I think she meant "why me?"  There is a lot in the news lately about early prenatal testing to identify Down syndrome and give the parents the right to abort.   It must be a really strange and unpleasant thing to feel that society thinks you shouldn't be alive. 

This is one of the times I am not the dictator of the world who has to make final decisions.
I know you believe you understand what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize what you heard was not what I meant...
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6 years ago  ::  Oct 31, 2007 - 6:35PM #7
austex
Posts: 88
I guess I'm going to be the first person to emphatically disagree. :D

Respectfully, I think the OP's reasoning is rather appallingly self-serving.  This seems to be one area where humanism is a miserable failure (and I say that as someone who is generally about as liberal as they come).  I think of myself as pro-choice, but this forces me to come out on the side of being against unrestricted abortion rights.  When it comes down to it, I suppose I think of legalized abortion as the lesser of evils instead of something that should be championed as a right.
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6 years ago  ::  Oct 31, 2007 - 3:51PM #8
REteach
Posts: 13,195
Healthy kids are already being aborted for being the wrong gender.

I recently was talking to a woman in my clinic with Down syndrome, mild MR.  She asked my why she wasn't normal, and I don't think she was asking about biological development.  I think she meant "why me?"  There is a lot in the news lately about early prenatal testing to identify Down syndrome and give the parents the right to abort.   It must be a really strange and unpleasant thing to feel that society thinks you shouldn't be alive. 

This is one of the times I am not the dictator of the world who has to make final decisions.
I know you believe you understand what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize what you heard was not what I meant...
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6 years ago  ::  Oct 31, 2007 - 6:35PM #9
austex
Posts: 88
I guess I'm going to be the first person to emphatically disagree. :D

Respectfully, I think the OP's reasoning is rather appallingly self-serving.  This seems to be one area where humanism is a miserable failure (and I say that as someone who is generally about as liberal as they come).  I think of myself as pro-choice, but this forces me to come out on the side of being against unrestricted abortion rights.  When it comes down to it, I suppose I think of legalized abortion as the lesser of evils instead of something that should be championed as a right.
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6 years ago  ::  Oct 31, 2007 - 7:13PM #10
REteach
Posts: 13,195
I agree with the lesser of evils thing.  OTOH, I used to work in Labor and Delivery, where women had post mortem c-section trays kept outside their rooms because their medical status was so problematic that pregnancy could literally kill them.  So pregnancy is not risk free. 

Anyway, being gay isn't any different than being female.  There are people who would choose to abort us for no other reason than that.
I know you believe you understand what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize what you heard was not what I meant...
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