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Switch to Forum Live View Can we get married in faith? No Marriage License!!
3 years ago  ::  Sep 11, 2011 - 1:05AM #1
Angelofthestars
Posts: 4
First thing's first. I would like to explain our situation so that you know that neither he nor I are trying to find loop holes to do the dirty or to bypass our religion. My fiance and I have been together for over 2 1/2 years and already have a son together.

Several years ago I applied for disability for multiple reasons: my bipolar getting out of control (I have at least 5 different mental diagnosis), and I have severely messed up my back which may require surgery to fix. Now that it has finally gotten to the appeal stage and I have very good lawyers, I have hit a tiny snag.

My fiance and I were planning to get married last year around this time. Well, our car broke down and we had to spend our entire savings to fix it (the air-ride suspension went out in our '85 Lincoln Contenintal, you do the math. =/ ) So we postponed the wedding until Oct. 1st of this year. Now my lawyers are telling me that if we get legally married then it could disquallify my disabillity case. Because it was filed as a childs case ("disabled before the age of 22" and I became disabled at 18.) getting married would void that out somehow.

It's been three years waiting on my disability to go through so I don't want to risk it, but at the same time my fiance and I REALLY want to get married. I've even made a lot of the stuff for our wedding myself (bride maid's dresses, flower girl dresses, bouquets, boutonniers, my reception dress, oh... and we're making the cake)!! I have put so much effort in this.

That's why I was wanting to know if it would be best to wait or to go ahead and have our ceremony. If we go ahead and have it we can have our ceremony and be married in our faith in the eyes of God, to our family, and to our friends. But not to the government for now that will just try to jerk me around some more. We can always go back to the courthouse later.

What do you all think? I would really like some advice on this. Thanks!
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3 years ago  ::  Sep 11, 2011 - 11:01AM #2
REteach
Posts: 14,585

There was no justice of the peace or minister for Adam and Eve, nor for Joseph and Mary.  At this time, marriage is a legal thing.  You are granted specific rights by being legally married. In some states, if you stay together long enough and consider yourself to be married, you are considered to be in a common law marriage.


If you have a disability lawyer, it makes sense to ask that person about the fine points of the law rather than strangers on the internet.  It is also possible that your minister will not marry you if it is not going to be a legal marriage--you may need to ask that person too.  


If you have been living together this long and have a child, what difference does it make? It only costs about $30 to get married, so money isn't the issue.  

I know you believe you understand what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize what you heard was not what I meant...
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3 years ago  ::  Sep 11, 2011 - 12:14PM #3
Angelofthestars
Posts: 4

Thank you for your reply. No, money is not the issue. The issue is that my lawyer has advised me to not get legally married, but he doesn't think I would qualify for adult disability becasue I did not work very long (on paper) before I messed up my back at 18.


 


So since this is an "adult child's" case, getting married at this point would disqualify me. However, I do not know if there is any way to change it from "adult child" to "adult" after I start recieving benefits. And if not, does that mean that my fiance and I can never get married, unless I go ahead and have the surgery which could also potentially make me worse? If they could find another way to fix my back so I could go back to work then it wouldn't be a problem at all. But most of the people I have talked to have recommended surgery.


I just don't know what to do at this point and the would-be wedding date is less than 3 weeks away!!

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3 years ago  ::  Sep 11, 2011 - 6:16PM #4
Hatman
Posts: 9,634

AoS-


Again, it seems to me that questions of a legal nature ought more to be addressed to the legal counsel you have hired and are paying, than strangers on the internet.


If you consider yourselves to be christians, then it's generally inadvisable to seek permission to marry from the State, as the State not only becomes a partner in your marriage, displacing God, but the SENIOR partner, to boot, which then takes an interest in all the "proceeds of the marriage," including your children.


If you'd like more info along that line, ask, and i'll search it out again; used to have the link on my computer, but my old computer died and i've been unable to restore the old info.


To cite Patrick Henry, "Beware of whom you ask permission," for they are your masters.


The "State" has no lawful right to stand in place of parents and either give or withhold permission to marry; "the State" was created by the conditional relinquishment of part of the Rights Our Father gave us, and is therefore our Servant, and it's members, our employees.  Get married any way you like, then bring proof to your county/city recorder and insist that they record the fact of your marriage.  They have no right to refuse, or demand that you first produce a "license" as there's no valid law requiring you to have the State's permission ab initio.


If they DO refuse, you can go before a judge and have a "writ of mandamus" issued which will COMPEL that employee to obey, and if he/she STILL refuses, you can ask the judge to issue a contempt of court order and/or sue that employee/servant for refusing to do his/her job, i.e. to just record the undeniable fact that indeed, a marriage HAS taken place that is completely valid.


Washington, Jefferson, Lincoln, and every president and every man and woman prior to 1920 never needed a "license" from ANYone to marry; why should YOU?


Warmest regards-


Hatman

"History records that the moneychangers have used every form of abuse, deceit, intrigue, and violent means possible to maintain their control over governments by controlling money and it's issuance."
-- James Madison(1751-1836), Father of the Constitution for the USA, 4th US President
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3 years ago  ::  Sep 12, 2011 - 7:59AM #5
REteach
Posts: 14,585

I work with people with disabilities and I don't think you understood your lawyer.  Even people with obvious disabilities such as Down syndrome or cerebral palsy have to meet a higher standard when they turn 18--even with pre-existing conditions.  If you have a child,  you may qualify for Medicaid coverage for surgery, otherwise your state probably has a state medically needy program. Is the problem that if you get married, you have to be covered under your husband's insurance?


What kind of back problem at 18 would qualify you for permanent disability other than a spinal cord injury or spina bifida?  I have written disability letters for people and it is not a slam-dunk.

I know you believe you understand what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize what you heard was not what I meant...
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3 years ago  ::  Sep 12, 2011 - 9:24AM #6
Angelofthestars
Posts: 4

Thank you for your reply Hatman, I will definitely have to take all of that into consideration.


 


REteach, I explained the situation a little better in my reply to the first response. As for my back issues (the last tests I could have run were in 2008 before my insurance ran out.) I have two severely herniated discs in the lower lumbar section of my spine and it is pinching my sciatic nerve. They told me in 2008 that my discs were "almost gone" and that I could "lose my ability to walk" if I didn't get it taken care of.


 


My insurance ended up running out and after that I couldn't have any more tests done as I am already in a world of debt with one of the hospitals I had to go to that continued to send me away with a new FALSE diagnosis every time.


 


Since that time I have started to develop even more issues throughout the length of my spine due to over compensation for my low back issues. Most noticeable, is the middle of my back and my neck. I have two discs in the middle of my back that are always slipping now and three that slip out in my neck. I now get migraines nearly every other day! They have finally reinstated my insurance so I will be going to get all of the proper tests as soon as possible.


 


Thank you for your repy. Any advice you could give me would be extremely helpful.

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3 years ago  ::  Sep 12, 2011 - 4:20PM #7
Hatman
Posts: 9,634

AoS-


Took me awhile to find it again, but here's the link:


www.truthwinds.com/siterun_data/governme...


This is actually 2 articles, which i'd posted long ago @ b-net after finding them elsewhere on the 'net; apparently, someone cut'n'pasted all that info to the 4winds site years ago, too, including my handle!


But as always, don't believe everything you read; check things out for yourself(ves), to discover whether or not they're really true...like the statutes for your State in your nearest law-library.  Even though many of these are now online, photocopies of the actual law would serve your purposes better, IMO.


Sorry about your back troubles; i've thrown out mine 3x in my life, plus fell off a roof onto my behindquarters, fracturing my coccyx, probably(summer-before-last---just guessing from how long i suffered in pain because of it, about 5-6 months).  i figured "Why go to the doctor?  What'll he/she do but charge me for expensive x-rays and prescribe me drugs i can't afford?  What can a doc do for me, put my butt in a sling?"


So yeah, i've often looked at stairs with dread, for example, and getting into/out of bed---not to mention changing positions while in it---was always an adventure in pain, too.


i met a gal at b-net who suffers from intense back pain, as well; she said that cortizone shots helped a great deal, albeit temporarily, and she really loved what she called "Blomberg shots"(or something similar).  She lives in Australia, so the latter may be called something else, here.


Warmest regards-


Hatman

"History records that the moneychangers have used every form of abuse, deceit, intrigue, and violent means possible to maintain their control over governments by controlling money and it's issuance."
-- James Madison(1751-1836), Father of the Constitution for the USA, 4th US President
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3 years ago  ::  Sep 13, 2011 - 12:23PM #8
DotNotInOz
Posts: 6,833

Sep 11, 2011 -- 11:01AM, REteach wrote:

In some states, if you stay together long enough and consider yourself to be married, you are considered to be in a common law marriage. 




This is true, depending upon statutes for common-law marriage in a given state. If Angel's state recognizes it, they might already be considered married in their state.


Where we used to live, a couple was legally married if they referred publicly to the other as  spouse, had residential bill statements in both names or a joint bank account and had lived as a couple for a length of time, don't recall how long.


What was interesting about that is that once a couple met these requirements, technically they were required to go through divorce proceedings if they split up. So I learned when reading the state statutes, which I found very interesting.

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3 years ago  ::  Sep 14, 2011 - 8:32AM #9
karbie
Posts: 3,329

My niece and her fiance have been together for several years. the only reason they aren't married right now is the fact she needs gamma globulin treatments every month to have an immune system, and the only way they could afford that is by her staying  on her parents' insurance. My sister got things set up so that she could keep her on their insurance indefinitely as long as she didn't marry.


They came up for my son's wedding and I was able to have breakfast with them one morning. As far as our family is concerned, they are married in love and faith. I told them I considered them to have a common-law marriage. I don't know the laws for Florida; it wasn't legally recognized. I know that in California that if you have been living together for a few years you can get married without needing a marriage license at all. One less way to make money for the tabloids is fine by me.


You may be able to find a minister who would be willing to bless your union as opposed to a legal marriage. I understand some of your concerns about the disability being approved, too. I'm disabled, but I don't qualify for anything because I haven't worked outside the home in 5 years. I have had the nerve blocks and they do help--it takes about a month before you get the full effects. I've also had a spinal fusion /bone graft on my upper spine because the top 2 disks were  just rubble on the 3rd disc, leaving just the bone spur pressing against my spinal cord. Any phone call that begins with "Do you have your own neurosurgeon or would you like the doctor to recommend one to you?"isn't fun. I was in surgery 3 weeks later; the neurosurgeon had wanted to operate in 2 weeks but we wanted to be sure that we had pre-certification first. I made it more interesting by breaking my tailbone a few days before the surgery; by the time the X-rays were reported to my pain doctor it was a day after the surgery. I don't recommend a broken tailbone and a neck brace at the same time.


My mother had a spinal fusion 53 years ago that is still holding; the odds had been 50/50 on it working, but at the time she had an 80% chance of not being able to  walk in 2 years and spending her life in a wheelchair. Fortunately her doctor was a pioneer in the field whose techniques are still being used today.


 I can tell you honestly that the shots improve mobility. Have you been checked for arthritis? Usually when you have a lot of damage in an area, you will get arthritis there as well. I'm so sorry that you are in so much pain. Check to see if you are currently on an anti-inflammatory/muscle relaxant medication because it should help calm things down. Unfortunately stress makes chronic pain worse. If you aren't seeing someone who is a pain doctor, that's the best kind of doctor to help you and it proves that you are indeed in chronic distress and you've got the specialist to prove it. 


Good luck with everything--as far as I'm concerned you are married in God's eyes; 'red tape" is way too fiendish to come from God. Bureaucracy means "rule by desks". The year that we got married, if you called the number listed for the Marriage Bureau you were connected to the Mental Health department of the State Board of Health. They just gave me the correct number and it worked. It was just strange.

"You are letting your opinion be colored by facts again."
'When I want your opinion, I'll give it to you."
these are both from my father.
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3 years ago  ::  Sep 14, 2011 - 12:46PM #10
REteach
Posts: 14,585


Angel, lots of good doctors are leery of operating on someone's back just because they have herniated discs on MRI. Ours won't consider it unless they have been through spinal rehab. The problem is that too few people have been cured by back surgery. I'm not sure what you mean by false diagnoses.  Do you have pain in other joints? Double jointed?


Are you sure you don't qualify for medicaid or state medical coverage?

I know you believe you understand what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize what you heard was not what I meant...
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