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Switch to Forum Live View Can we get married in faith? No Marriage License!!
3 years ago  ::  Dec 02, 2011 - 9:13PM #21
Angelofthestars
Posts: 4

Hello again everyone! I'm sorry that I have not been on here sooner, but with everything that has been going on I had fallen into yet another depression spell. I tend to close myself off when that happens and not really talk to anyone. But I would like to say "thank you" to all of you that have taken time out of your days to give me one piece of advice or another. It really warms my heart to see that there are still good people in various communities all over the world.



I would like to reply to the last post first as I have found it offensive and unnecessary. Since I'm still not quite used to this site yet and I'm still a little unsure of how to use quotes on this I will post it as I know how.



Do_unto_others wrote "


I think it is you that is being disingenuous here. Clearly it IS 'about the money'. You don't want to lose a disability status claim. That comes with monetary benefits (" However, I do not know if there is any way to change it from "adult child" to "adult" after I start recieving benefits.").



It is YOU that is doing the "jerking around", not the government since you do not wish to get legally married. You can do whatever you want in your church, but you will not be legally married. So you shouldn't get the "effects that flow from marriage"."



Well Do_unto_others, if you truly had read the rest of this thread I don't think that you would be saying such things. Unless you really are just that close-minded and cynical, in which case I feel really sorry for you. My fiance and I both do want to get "legally" married but can't because I need to get the insurance to get my back taken care of (and to also get the help that I need with my Bipolar 1 and BPD or I could not afford the therapy and medication). I reside in Missouri in the US and the only way to get insurance here is to be under 17-19, pregnant, or disabled.


So please, before you try to pass judgment or "throw your two cents in," make sure that you are fully aware of all of the information provided. Otherwise you risk making yourself look and sound like cynical, misinformed jerk (to be nice). At no point in my original post or afterward was I ever asking for sympathy, merely advice. So if you were hoping to make me feel like a ****, seem superior, or hurt my feelings in any way.. then I must say that your efforts were entirely wasted and futile.


And as for that last part: "After reading this, I'd love to find out how you feel about same-gender marriage. Gay couples are being denied benefits and "the effects that flow from marriage" - even those who are perfectly legally married."


I am pro choice! Whatever floats your boat and paddles your canoe. Unlike you, I do not put myself in a high enough position to judge others based on anything. Not race, religion, sexual orientation, or otherwise. I, myself, don't really put myself in an orientation group. Because had I fallen in love with a woman then that is who I would be with. I love people for the souls that are inside them, for the people that they truly are. If you can't grasp that then I pity you that much more.


Now, all of that being said, if you have nothing nice or of any use to say please refrain from commenting on this thread again. It really isn't helpful and it causes me to raise an eyebrow at your username as well.... "do unto others...." hmmm.




As for everyone else that has been helpful, "Thank you!" My fiance and I did decide to put off the wedding until all of this is cleared up, though we are still searching for a pastor for future reference. My disability has gone into the "Federal Appeal" stage so now we are in the final stages of the waiting game... hopefully. And I have been accepted for temporary medicaid so I am trying to get everything that I can done while I can. I am going to try therapy for my back before I try surgery and I will bring up everything that everyone has mentioned to my doctors to see what all we can try. 



I would like to give a special thanks to Hatman as well. Thank you for your continuous support and unfailing wisdom. :)




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3 years ago  ::  Dec 08, 2011 - 5:58PM #22
Creedofcrusades
Posts: 1,571

  The government has been attacking marriage for years in this way. Holding out the carrot of free money only if you do not get married. How many kids will not get married because then, horrors, the father will be responsible for the child instead of the government. In fact it is hard to argue with their logic. Marriage can cost a huge amount of government benefits.


  It is planned and has been very successful. It is what happens when liberals run the government.

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3 years ago  ::  Dec 09, 2011 - 12:52AM #23
Hatman
Posts: 9,634

Dec 8, 2011 -- 5:58PM, Creedofcrusades wrote:

  The government has been attacking marriage for years in this way. Holding out the carrot of free money only if you do not get married. How many kids will not get married because then, horrors, the father will be responsible for the child instead of the government. In fact it is hard to argue with their logic. Marriage can cost a huge amount of government benefits.


  It is planned and has been very successful. It is what happens when liberals run the government.


In truth, it is both unwise AND untrue to blame this situation on "liberals," as unless "conservative" CongressCretins had not signed off on those programs, they would not exist.

Let me give you an example.

Suddenly, you become wealthy beyond your wildest dreams.  Soon, you find yourself being hounded by both relatives and strangers wanting a piece of your dough.  You hire butlers, drivers, maids and bodyguards to attend you and help protect you.  Then, one day you decide you want to get married, find a suitable woman who agrees to unite her house with your own.

Do you need to ask the permission of your servants and employees that you intend to marry, so they can issue you THEIR PERMISSION to do so?  How is it any of their business?  As a courtesy, you may NOTIFY them that a marriage is to take place, and/or let them know after it is an established fact, but why would anyone in their right mind need or WANT their "permission" first?

Yet hundreds of thousands of blind sheeple do this every year, just like they ignorantly sign "birth certificates."

With goodwill to all the People-

Hatman

"History records that the moneychangers have used every form of abuse, deceit, intrigue, and violent means possible to maintain their control over governments by controlling money and it's issuance."
-- James Madison(1751-1836), Father of the Constitution for the USA, 4th US President
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3 years ago  ::  Dec 20, 2011 - 11:34PM #24
StellaBleu
Posts: 1

Dearest Angel -


I know the struggles that you must be dealing with and I pray your health improves. My "husband" and I have been together over five years now. We both are disabled... that's how we met, and live on a very tight budget. I don't know if anyone outside of California could understand but I receive $940 a month and hubby gets $900. If we were to legally marry we would both loose approximately 1/3 of our benefits which WOULD leave us homeless moving from shelter to shelter - a fear I know all to well. Our lives are centered around God and we both have our own personal relationship with our Lord. I know in my heart that God understands this and quite frankly, I don't know how any mere mortal could tell me different. I will be praying for you and your family and remember there's only One you need to please! ;)


StellaB

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3 years ago  ::  Dec 30, 2011 - 3:49PM #25
Creedofcrusades
Posts: 1,571

  Hi hatman. I would answer your post...if it were understandable. I'll bet it was fun to write though. Happy New year.

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3 years ago  ::  Jan 17, 2012 - 3:41PM #26
river8101
Posts: 5,564

I keep wondering about your lawyer.   There's good and bad, and in between, and he should be able to do more for you imo.   Have you spoken to any other lawyer, or consulted legal aid?    You should. Legal Aid is good.  They have excellent lawyers, and they don't charge more than you can pay.


I don't know how to advise you on your medical condition.  I don't know where you live or what kind of doctors you have been to.  Check around though.  You don't have to live in a state to get another lawyer or seek advice from a first rate hospital from a different state afaik. 


I have had back problems for several years.  I've taken the shots, which helped some.  My doctor retired and I went to another who had taken on his patients.  I saw him twice.   The first I got a little better.  The 2nd time a lot worse.   So, I may try another doctor or not.  Don't know. 


As to marriage, I don't understand why that matters.   Maybe it has to do with medical visits or something.  You should find another state, imo, like CA.    The one you live in sounds pretty up tight.  Baltimore has excellent medical staffs and hospitals.   But, some are better than others.  I had a friend who had curvature of the spine.  She had several surgeries, but none helped much at all and she had to work a job through it all.  Finally after years of suffering she tried again, and now she's completlely without pain. Go figure.  Keep trying.


Good luck.

“Faith is deciding to allow yourself to believe something your intellect would otherwise cause you to reject.”
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3 years ago  ::  Jan 29, 2012 - 10:30PM #27
Theo
Posts: 4,691

Let's see - you want to get married BUT will lose a great deal of government benefits, (that you see as essential) if you marry, because the Gov will no longer be responsible for your medical care. So your choice is to marry him, and bear the costs of your medical care yourselves, or not marry, so the State will pay for your medical care. That you need someone to help you is obvious, your choice is between the State or your man... and remaining unmarried or getting married.


I once knew a guy, a big powerful weight-lifter, who married a pretty young quadriplegic gal. He met her while working as in-home caregiver, and after falling in love, he decided to marry her. And in as much as she was very wealthy, he would never have to work again, outside of taking care of her. Their marriage lasted for about 10 years, when he apparently decided he's had enough of being tied down because of her immobility all the time, so he divorced her and remarried another woman few years later.


I hope the man in your life honestly understands that you are damaged goods (figuratively speaking) with your medical problems, and that whether he is willing or able to take financial responsibility for you or not... he is still taking on himself all your problems. And I say that as respectfully as I know how to be. Being married 31 years to a woman who also has many chronic problems; I can tell you firsthand how that weighs on me, and how many times I wished I had a healthy wife who could take care of herself and the house... etc, and not have to do everything myself. Love does not always make up for the lacks and problems of your spouse... their problems become your problems.


My solution, were I in your shoes, would be to exchange vows before God, and live before Him as husband and wife, but remain unwed in the eyes of the State. In fact, my son is in exactly that position. His wife is an independent ward of the State, but if he marries her, she loses all her benefits. And in as much as they need that money in order to make a life together, they have remained unmarried - as far as the State is concerned.


To me these are reasons why the State should get out of the marriage business altogether.


Christianity would never stand for the State telling them who can partake of the Eucharist... we have "religious freedom" in this country. But Marriage, like the Eucharist, is a Christians Sacrament too, (make that an ordinance for Protestants - which is a distinction without much of a difference) so I think Christians made a huge mistake way back when they allowed the State to marry citizens and endue them legal rights and benefits. This goes way back to a time when the Church and State were not as separate as they are today.


So, what is the solution? My solution would be for Christians to take marriage away from the State, on the grounds that it pertains to the establishment of religion, and treat it like the sacrament that it is, and for the State to get out of marriage altogether and replace it with Civil Unions. Couples joined by Civil Union could call each other husband and wife all they wanted, same with married couples. Gays could be joined in Civil Union with each other, the same for Lesbians... each couple having the same legal status as couples married by the Church... only difference being; marriage would remain a holy Christian Sacrament and not be defiled by the secular State any further than it has been to date.


There are no marriage ceremonies or vows in the Bible, Jesus never married one couple, so there is nothing in Scripture that forbids young couples today from pledging their lives together, without the blessing of the State. Nor is there any promise on the part of God to recognize couples married by the State. So, in as much as the State and the Church have everything muddled up right now, I think it is okay to do what you think is right. Only thing is... marriage is for life or as long as you both shall live, so choose well and make the right choice.


That is my opinions on this matter.


~ Theophilus

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3 years ago  ::  Feb 04, 2012 - 7:58AM #28
Hatman
Posts: 9,634
Theo-
Did you know that prior to 1920 in America, NO ONE was required to be licensed to marry?

Do you know why what was then the status quo was changed?

Warmest regards-

Hatman
"History records that the moneychangers have used every form of abuse, deceit, intrigue, and violent means possible to maintain their control over governments by controlling money and it's issuance."
-- James Madison(1751-1836), Father of the Constitution for the USA, 4th US President
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3 years ago  ::  Feb 22, 2012 - 3:36AM #29
Ecstatic_kevin
Posts: 31

Feb 4, 2012 -- 7:58AM, Hatman wrote:

Did you know that prior to 1920 in America, NO ONE was required to be licensed to marry? Do you know why what was then the status quo was changed? Warmest regards- Hatman



Hello Hatman,


I think the Church made it mandatory for couples to get a marriage license from the State because the divorce rate started increasing. Oftentimes, men would just ditch their wives and disappear and not even bother paying child support. These women had no legal recourse since their marriages were not licensed by the State. Without legal documentation, it was easier for the men to get away saying the marriage never happened. 


Since the Church had (and still has) no legal powers to protect such women, it agreed that it was in the best interest of the women to have a marriage license from the state. That way, the men would not be able to walk out on their wives and children on a whim. And if they did, they wouldnt escape without at least paying child support.


As for you, Angel - if i were in your place, i would just go ahead and get married -- both in Church and Legally. Never base the most important decisions on your life on money, the root of all evil. It is always good to plan well, but the thing with money is we'll never have enough. Things happen. You save for one thing and spend on another...such is life. Instead of keeping one eye on the guy you love and the other on how much you have in the bank, i suggest you train both your eyes on the man you love and your baby. Listen to the voice in your heart -- that's God speaking and telling you what's best for you. And the best is before you right now. Dont wait till it is too late. 


 

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3 years ago  ::  Feb 29, 2012 - 10:26AM #30
Hatman
Posts: 9,634
Woe to those who lose their faith in God and substitute a false god, "the State," a fictional entity, for their protection.  i seem to recall something about "When you see the abomination that makes desolate standing in the holy place," that is, pretending to BE God, right?

Woe to those who claim that "the Church" demanded that the State "do something"(like require licenses), for the Church is SUPPOSED to be "in the world, but NOT OF the world.  i believe i recall something about the scarlet woman riding the back of the Beast, the church allied with the State.

Woe to those whose word means nothing, who pretend that the witnesses to their marriage(visible AND invisible) do not exist or do not count.

Woe to those who abandon the responsibility to provide for children they have helped to bring into this world, too...whether male OR female.

Warmest regards-

Hatman
"History records that the moneychangers have used every form of abuse, deceit, intrigue, and violent means possible to maintain their control over governments by controlling money and it's issuance."
-- James Madison(1751-1836), Father of the Constitution for the USA, 4th US President
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