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Switch to Forum Live View New Views on Marriage.
4 years ago  ::  Sep 11, 2010 - 10:31AM #1
Earthyguy
Posts: 6

I always thought that to have a true marriage, it had to be legally validated by the goverment. I'm learning there are people who have successful relationships with simple, non-legal ceremonies, such as handfasting. The more I research, the more I wonder if this is not a better alternative for some. I mean half if not more of "legally validated" marriages end in divorce according to some recorded statistics. Something is amiss to me. Of course the carrot dangled before you are certain legal rights and privilages you can only secure with the goverment's approval. Just a thought.

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4 years ago  ::  Sep 11, 2010 - 12:02PM #2
Hatman
Posts: 9,634

Sep 11, 2010 -- 10:31AM, Earthyguy wrote:

I always thought that to have a true marriage, it had to be legally validated by the goverment. I'm learning there are people who have successful relationships with simple, non-legal ceremonies, such as handfasting. The more I research, the more I wonder if this is not a better alternative for some. I mean half if not more of "legally validated" marriages end in divorce according to some recorded statistics. Something is amiss to me. Of course the carrot dangled before you are certain legal rights and privilages you can only secure with the goverment's approval. Just a thought.


Earthyguy-
It may surprise you to learn that in America, "the gov't" had nothing to do with marriages until around 1920 or so, especially "licensing" one for the "privilege" of doing so.

But here's a link that explains far better than i can:

www.fourwinds10.com/siterun_data/governm...

Curiously, i lost all this info during a computer crash several years ago, and when i googled a key phrase i remembered from those documents, i found that someone had posted them to the above site---and even credited me!  (i had nothing to do with the writing of either of those, just thought it invaluable information to have, for anyone interested in keeping themselves and their children and their marriage and their property OUT of the hands of the State.)

Warmest regards-

Hatman

"History records that the moneychangers have used every form of abuse, deceit, intrigue, and violent means possible to maintain their control over governments by controlling money and it's issuance."
-- James Madison(1751-1836), Father of the Constitution for the USA, 4th US President
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4 years ago  ::  Sep 11, 2010 - 12:52PM #3
ArnieBeeGut
Posts: 1,407

Earthyguy,

Welcome to Beliefnet and to this little corner that deals with relationships and marriage.


It is certainly true that divorce statistics are rather dismal. However, the divorce rate has actually been decreasing over the past decade or so - perhaps partly due to fewer couples getting married and more choosing to cohabitate and even have children without marriage. So maybe what you are suggesting is coming to pass on its own.


Perhaps you are under the impression that relationships without the official seal of approval (marriage) are more stable and long-lasting or that the official-ness of marriage in itself causes some harm to the relationship.

Blessings,
Arnie

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4 years ago  ::  Sep 11, 2010 - 1:17PM #4
Earthyguy
Posts: 6

I totally concur with that! The core of what determines a stable relationship is attraction (physically, spiritually, mentally...)  Commitment, trust, respect only add strength to the relationship, and it's endurance. I didn't mean to suggest that goverment validated marriges are more likely to fail then those that are not, this is a new field of vision for me, that's all.Smile

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4 years ago  ::  Sep 11, 2010 - 6:40PM #5
Tolerant Sis
Posts: 4,201

I think relationships can be successful, inside or outside of state-sanctioned 'marriage', but the truth is that there are a couple of thousands of immediate benefits and protections that occur on day one with marriage, and some of those are never possible without. Especially if children are involved, I urge couples to get married and make sure their license is filed with their state.  Too many dreadful things can happen - death, disability, whatever - and couples and their children need to be protected legally.

First amendment fan since 1793.
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4 years ago  ::  Sep 12, 2010 - 7:13PM #6
Panthera_windsong
Posts: 3

Yes in the past it was more beneficial to be married to protect each other but times are changing.  Couples can now have joint bank accounts and own property together without having to worry about the government or family members causing problems.   Insurance is still a issue as I do not believe they will cover significant others.  As far as children are concerned, they have the same benefits whether or not their parents have a piece of paper to mark their commitment to one another.   


I also believe that some of the declining divorce rate is due to the fact that more and more couples are deciding that a commitment to each other does not require a piece of paper.  Does a piece of paper make a couples commitment stronger or more valid?  No  We as a society are realizing more and more that the way a couple desires to make a commitment to one another is their right and we should honor it.

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4 years ago  ::  Sep 13, 2010 - 8:33PM #7
Hatman
Posts: 9,634
The bottom line is that no one has EVER needed a "license" from gov't SERVANTS and EMPLOYEES.  One simply takes the evidence that a marriage has indeed taken place to the county/city courthouse office of Records(whatever it's called in your jurisdiction), and insists that said SERVANT and EMPLOYEE enter the fact on the county rolls.  If he/she refuses, inform them that they can and will be sued...then go immediately to family court and have the judge there issue a "writ of mandamus" to COMPEL the recalcitrant knucklehead(or group thereof) to do what they're told or risk not only arrest, but firing from their position.

With goodwill to all the People-

Hatman
"History records that the moneychangers have used every form of abuse, deceit, intrigue, and violent means possible to maintain their control over governments by controlling money and it's issuance."
-- James Madison(1751-1836), Father of the Constitution for the USA, 4th US President
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4 years ago  ::  Sep 14, 2010 - 12:06PM #8
Cesmom
Posts: 5,129

Sep 11, 2010 -- 6:40PM, Tolerant Sis wrote:


I think relationships can be successful, inside or outside of state-sanctioned 'marriage', but the truth is that there are a couple of thousands of immediate benefits and protections that occur on day one with marriage, and some of those are never possible without. Especially if children are involved, I urge couples to get married and make sure their license is filed with their state.  Too many dreadful things can happen - death, disability, whatever - and couples and their children need to be protected legally.





Good points.


If a couple wants to commit without being married, that's certainly their choice, but to me, especially with kids, the piece of paper does have meaning behind it. 


Besides, divorce is hard...hard enough that it might give you just a little incentive to try just a little harder to make it work.  Reminds me of a quote:


“One advantage of marriage is that, when you fall out of love with him or he falls out of love with you, it keeps you together until you fall in again.”

Our need to learn should always outweigh our need to be right

It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.

More people would learn from their mistakes if they weren't so busy denying them.
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4 years ago  ::  Sep 20, 2010 - 6:29PM #9
ArnieBeeGut
Posts: 1,407

Sep 11, 2010 -- 1:17PM, Earthyguy wrote:

I totally concur with that! The core of what determines a stable relationship is attraction (physically, spiritually, mentally...)  Commitment, trust, respect only add strength to the relationship, and it's endurance.


Actually, the 'attraction' part is the least of what gives a relationship strength and endurance - it is the commitment, trust, and respect that give it longevity. These are all decisions and not feelings - attraction is a feeling - and feelings fade (always).

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