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4 years ago  ::  Aug 17, 2010 - 7:03PM #41
natureboy_the0
Posts: 1,741

Aug 17, 2010 -- 9:55AM, rachel219 wrote:

natureboy_the0,


First of all, thank you for taking the time to teach the things you wrote.  I'm going to need some time to process much of the last part of your post.  Your words/teaching is very deep, indeed.  I can respond to some of it, though.


Aug 5, 2010 -- 7:45PM, natureboy_the0 wrote:

Fellowshipping with "god" isn't fellowshipping with other man, per say, it's learning to hear you inner voice, the one civilization say is evil because it usually tells us to do the opposite of what we're taught by the world, and obeying it.   However, we have to have it teach us how to comprehend what it say.



Aug 17, 2010 -- 9:55AM, rachel219 wrote:

How true.  I understand now after several years of teaching that God wants relationship with us.  Women probably relate to that better (or at least more openly) than men do, right? We are so communal.  Does that scare men?


If girls are more open about having a direct relationship with spirit, I don't think they would be in much of a relationship with other man of either gender.  When one can relate to something they usually live it, to consider it and not live it is only to believe, knowing truth is by living truth to make you free.


 

Aug 5, 2010 -- 7:45PM, natureboy_the0 wrote:

...your husband may be the first to be so instructed and you left alone at home to fellowship with god.



Aug 17, 2010 -- 9:55AM, rachel219 wrote:

I don't quite understand this.  Would you mind explaining a little more?


From what you've said and say in the next paragraph, your husband appears to be nearer to a new birth than you, if that is true then he would be required to leave you (Matthew 19:29) as you build close enough to spirit fou your new birth  with the evidence being John 3:8 (KJV), something done alone


Aug 5, 2010 -- 7:45PM, natureboy_the0 wrote:

And you are correct, had you looked at it that way you would not have had the doubt, however, that was something you needed to experience.  But, being you may be beginning to think like him, you may find no sexual desire toward him although you will have magnificent agreements in your conversations. 



Aug 17, 2010 -- 9:55AM, rachel219 wrote:

Actually, natureboy, when we talk about the Word of God and our faith and other spiritual aspects of our relationship with God, it is very attractive to me.  I am very turned on by him when he is expressing his faith, his revelation or taking a (spiritual) leadership role in our relationship.  As one of the disciples said "follow me as I follow Christ".  That is very desirable to me.




more....


Rachael, that was Paul who said "follow me as I follow christ" which I disagree with.  Both Old and New Testaments say the law will be written in our hearts and inward parts for god to be [the individuals] god and the individual being god's people.  That suggest living alone in this world except with god in our hearts. 


Matthew 19:29 ends saying we will receive 100 fold everything we leave uncared for prior to entering everlasting life.  After forsaking everything, every time the individual have a need for a mother, father, sister, brother, husband in your case or child figure it will be there to quench the need, should you need a house or land it will be provided to quench that need.  That is where living with an open hand and everything will stay only as long as you have the need, then it is taken away. 


I'm now 34 years a wanderer and my experiences have proven that every time Ineed the need is met.  Since I need computers to reach many a people, they are provided at no cost to me.  2 houses are at my disposal here in DC, more money comes to me than I think I need food is given me and water is always available.  Girl and boy friends are always near and I have no need for a lover [wife] that I know of, children are here to provide me that pleasure, so my 100 fold is manifesting itself to me daily, and has for my whole 34 years. 


We must remember, God's ways are not man's nor his ways man's, they are as separated as heaven [the sky] is from earth.

Are you questioning your beliefs, ask I AM THAT I AM to clarify them!
Elijah Alfred "NatureBoy" Alexander, Jr. presenting SEEDS OF LIFE
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4 years ago  ::  Aug 17, 2010 - 8:37PM #42
ArnieBeeGut
Posts: 1,407

Rachel,

I am so impressed with the thoughtful and heartfelt responses to everyone who has written here!

Aug 17, 2010 -- 9:37AM, rachel219 wrote:

I don't know why he would say that because it is the words HE says that are criticizing and blameful.


Consider this possibility: whenever words are heard that sound blameful, it is usually because the person saying them is not okay with themselves. Most people respond to their inner critic or judge by projecting outwards and blaming someone else. That is actually quite understandable, since it can be very uncomfortable to see oneself clearly.

Aug 17, 2010 -- 9:37AM, rachel219 wrote:

...the minute I don't agree with him or want to go along with what he is proposing, he can get antagonistic


This is yet another indicator, since someone more or less at peace with themselves is generally accepting of different perspectives or points of view. Since you cannot change him, what does that leave you? All you can do is deal with how you are with the fact that he disagrees about something - and whether he has a problem with disagreement or not, you don't have to.

Aug 17, 2010 -- 9:37AM, rachel219 wrote:

(what's the word for when someone starts to put you down like you aren't as smart as they are, or as the whole world is?)


Not sure - contempt perhaps? The fact is you don't have to justify yourself to him (or anyone for that matter)! Again, the place to look is inside yourself - you'd be amazed at what might happen if you are at peace with your own thoughts while allowing him to have his as well.

It is also a fact that in any relationship, conflict is inevitable. Avoidance of conflict is actually a hallmark of a failing relationship. In fact it is completely possible for any couple to talk about any subject without agreeing. There are ways to respond that can facilitate rather than increase the temperature however.

Aug 17, 2010 -- 9:37AM, rachel219 wrote:

It starts with me, right?  Is that being self-ish?


Not at all! Who else can you change but yourself? And you don't have to be a 'better' person - you are already wonderful and perfect just as you are! For me, 'change' means peeling away the layers of crud that the world has heaped upon us since childhood and revealing the light that is within each of us. Not to 'please' God or anyone else, but because it leads to a better and more satisfying way to be in the world and with others.


Blessings,
Arnie

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4 years ago  ::  Aug 18, 2010 - 1:12AM #43
Hatman
Posts: 9,634
Rachel
A long time ago, as i was sitting around the crack house, high as a kite, and preaching the gospel, one fellow crackhead stopped me in my tracks and made me think.

She said, very simply, something that her mamma told her:  "You cain't do right by doin' wrong."

So imo, the first thing you need to do is to get away from the situation where you open yourself to repeated temptations to fornication.

Every time you give in to your desires, you do wrong, and you know it...which makes it even worse.

And of course your bf/fiancé wants to keep you around and press your buttons, meanwhile not treating you with the respect a potential life-partner deserves...he's gettin what HE wants, who cares what YOU want?

So as long as you remain in this situation, refer back to the original crackhead statement: "You cain't do right by doin' wrong."

Warmest regards-

Hatman
"History records that the moneychangers have used every form of abuse, deceit, intrigue, and violent means possible to maintain their control over governments by controlling money and it's issuance."
-- James Madison(1751-1836), Father of the Constitution for the USA, 4th US President
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4 years ago  ::  Aug 18, 2010 - 10:29AM #44
rachel219
Posts: 30

Hello, DAH54, thank you for your responses. 


Much of what you said I understand and I have read and re-read every post on this thread more than once to see if I am explaining things correctly and get a fresh look at the responses each time.  Almost everytime I re-read a response, I learn something new or I am reminded of how I can best handle my situation.  I truly appreciate all that has been said.


I've made myself vulnerable on this thread seeking help, encouragement and/or correction.  Sometimes we get into things that is not easy to get out of.  I'm not a quitter and when I commit to someone, I'm committed.  I don't expect a bed of roses, and there is much I have to learn because it's been over 20 years since I was involved in a serious relationship.  I'm naive in knowing what real life couples face and how they get through it.  I'm not trying to run away because if I don't learn how to handle this, I will run into again because I will not have learned how to manage (for lack of a better word) my own emotions in a constructive way, and thereby, I'll be led by emotions forever and that is not good.  I don't want to repeat a destructive cycle. 


I am grateful for sound and wise counsel I have been given here.  It helps me to take intelligent steps (although they may be "baby steps" and at a slow pace, but they are steps nonetheless) to resolve my own issues that have hindered me as well as recognize negative behavior from someone else, how it affects me, take ownership of my own negativity, and perhaps understand why the person is behaving the way they are (if it's me or them or both)and how to best be a compassionate, understanding human being.


Had I not come here, DAH54, I would still be a confused, insecure, self-hating, depressed (you get the picture) woman who has no clue of what does happen in relationships, my partner's POV, how to handle my emotions, and so much more I can't find the words or have the space to write.


The advice I have received here has done so much good for me, and I thank GOD and ask His blessing to be on everyone that has taken the time to share their wisdom, insights and experience with me.  Here I have learned not to run away, but understand what is going on, face it and take positive steps for resolution. The advice here has been practical and given with such humaneness and compassion that I can follow it clearly. 


DAH54, you have NO IDEA how this thread is helping me.  God bless everyone who has responded and I'm hoping that if someone else is going through something similar to what I am, they will find encouragement, correction, love and practical, sound wisdom on how to live better than they have been by reading this thread.  Praise God for the people here!


Aug 7, 2010 -- 10:49AM, DAH54 wrote:

You are giving your partner sex in order that he does not look at other women.... That would not make me feel good, and I doubt that it really makes you feel good......



I am not giving my fiance sex so that he will not look at other women.  He will look at other women and that no longer effects me negatively anymore. 


Further, we are rarely intimate anymore due to the fact that we both really want to do what is right and not have our prayers hindered or muddle what is going on in our relationship.  At least that is what I am seeing and he shared as much with me. 


DAH54, isf you will read my post you will see that it is not sex that I am seeking.  Being intimate is supposed to be a result of the love and committment and desire we have for each other.  It should not be totally taken out of the relationship.  Married people are sexually intimate.  Engaged people should not be, no, but should have the right attitude about sexual intimacy and understand it's power and meaning and why it is a holy covenant and do everything that is necessary to honor it, desire it and eventually experience it with one another. 


I've jumped the gun, yes, in being intimate with my fiance before marriage.  However, my desire for my fiance was not purely physical.  It was an act of my committment to him.  My ...in a physical intimate sense, since there are other ways to express my committment) of my love, confidence, dedication to him and him only.  Sexual intimacy will not always "be", (if you can understand what I mean by that), but until that happens, one should not feel like it should be depressed and stifled.  That's why marriage is so important.  In marriage, "the bed is undefiled" because marriage is honorable.  The holy scriptures tell us that we should not "defraud" one another by holding back physical intimacy in marriage. 


Right, I'm not married yet, so I may sound contradictory, but I'm not trying to be.  I have been concerned that if my fiance and I continue to depress or restrict (for lack of better words) our physical desire for each other (that is a result of our love and respect and admiration for each other, that is, not just lust -- but lust ain't bad when you're married and lusting after each other! right?), when we get married, we may no longer desire each other that way at all.  I don't want that. 


This may not even be the case and I have let these thoughts torment me.  Coming to this thread has enlightened my mind not only through the advice, but also in pointing me to God and praying to Him for understanding of His Word and how the responses here have matched His.


I really can't explain all that I want to say to you, DAH54.  Maybe my posts are coming off that all I want is sex from my fiance.  But that is truly not what I am trying to express.  The desire for each other should motivate us to solidify our committment so that we can enjoy what belongs to married people.  Marriage may not be a bed of roses, but whatever conflict one can eliminate or work through can surely help develop the relationship and the individuals involved.


I am glad you suggest taking a hard look at my posts.  I am taking a hard look at myself, DAH54, which is why I am here.  I don't want to fool myself.  IMHO, my self-examination and seeking advice has helped me identify wrong thinking and right thinking.  I so appreciate this.


~ Rachel 



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4 years ago  ::  Aug 18, 2010 - 11:30AM #45
rachel219
Posts: 30

Arnie,


I agree with you about the heartfelt and thoughtful responses on this thread.  The advice that has been given here is so encouraging and helps me in my faith and hope and offers direction for positive results.  I believe that everyone here has spoken from the heart.  It may take me a little bit to respond, but I will always respond and try my best to understand what everyone is expressing here.


Aug 17, 2010 -- 8:37PM, ArnieBeeGut wrote:

Consider this possibility: whenever words are heard that sound blameful, it is usually because the person saying them is not okay with themselves. Most people respond to their inner critic or judge by projecting outwards and blaming someone else. That is actually quite understandable, since it can be very uncomfortable to see oneself clearly.



Is this why he keeps bringing up my past?  For instance, it never fails when he is trying to prove a point, he will bring up a prior response from me where I "reacted" emotionally (see SIDEBAR note for detailed explanation) and I see no relevance in his bringing up a past incidence other than to just keep pouring salt in a wound.  What I mean by that is this: 100% of the time that he will bring up a past incidence where we were arguing, the issue has been resolved -- either by my apologizing and/or my submitting to his requests (even when I've been proven right by the end result).  As far as I am concerned, the issue is over and done with, yet he never fails to bring those things up!  It's like I can never get over the past with him.  Even though we have resolved the issue to his benefit.  Sigh. 


(SIDEBAR: mind you, it seems like ANYTHING I say will be interpreted by him as my being "emotional" when it suits him.  It doesn't matter whether my voice is a more soprano than normal, or even if I am as a cool as cucumber.  It doesn't matter.  When I'm cool and calm, according to him, I'm still really emotional just suppressing it by using a different tone of voice.  If I get soprano, I'm yelling.  Oy.)


Aug 17, 2010 -- 8:37PM, ArnieBeeGut wrote:


This is yet another indicator, since someone more or less at peace with themselves is generally accepting of different perspectives or points of view. Since you cannot change him, what does that leave you? All you can do is deal with how you are with the fact that he disagrees about something - and whether he has a problem with disagreement or not, you don't have to.



Could you explain this a little more, Arnie?  I don't quite understand and I want to.


Aug 17, 2010 -- 8:37PM, ArnieBeeGut wrote:


The fact is you don't have to justify yourself to him (or anyone for that matter)! Again, the place to look is inside yourself - you'd be amazed at what might happen if you are at peace with your own thoughts while allowing him to have his as well.  



Very true, Arnie.  Believe it or not, I have experienced this kind of peace before.   It is truly what you say.  Only through prayer have I been able to achieve this.  To be at peace is very liberating not so much to me, but it allows me to let the other person "be".  Just be themselves and have no fear or anxiety that they are not accepted for who they are.


Aug 17, 2010 -- 8:37PM, ArnieBeeGut wrote:


It is also a fact that in any relationship, conflict is inevitable. Avoidance of conflict is actually a hallmark of a failing relationship. In fact it is completely possible for any couple to talk about any subject without agreeing. There are ways to respond that can facilitate rather than increase the temperature however.



I've never thought this way about conflict.  I thought that if you have conflict, you are not meant to be together.  "How can two walk together except they be agreed?" I have been interpreting things incorrectly, I see.  It's areas like this where I seek balance and understanding.  I would like to learn how to facilitate rather than incite negativity.  You have offered many ways I can do this as far as how to look into myself and also examine how I am approaching my fiance.  It's not always easy because he will overtalk me like he has to cover all the bases and leaves nothing for me to say.  Alot of times he will say "I'm going to say this and I don't want to get into a debate with you about this..." then he will proceed to speak for about 15 - 20 minutes trying to "dot every "i" and cross every "t" so that I will have nothing to say.  I said to him once, ok, so if I say something that means it becomes a debate?  What about having a conversation or discussion?  Just because he has said so much, it's like he's speaking for me and therefore, what could I possibly have to say?  The issue is, is that I DO have something to say because everything he is not right, OR I want to address some of his points/comments to explain my POV or perspective.  It's like according to him 'just sit down and be quiet and listen and learn.  You are not as smart as I am, so you have nothing really constructive to add or comment on.


Now, mind you, he has not come out and said that, but the way his attitude is and the way he prefaces his monologue, albeit sometimes in a nice, calm way, essentially appears to eliminate any feedback from the audience. 


He has said that, however.  Once, when I made that point to him that, imo, when he talks so much it's like he's trying to cover all the bases so that no one has any questions.


He told me: "I don't see anything wrong with that.  Why should anyone have any questions?  If I've covered everything, then there are no questions, which is the best way.  If there are questions, then I haven't covered everything, that's not a good look for me. It looks like I'm unprepared and don't know all of what I am talking about or trying to teach."


Does this make sense?  My goodness, there's always a question and answer period after a seminar or long talk!  If not for any other reason than to make sure the audience was PAYING ATTENTION after the monologue.  Oy. 


Am I not getting something here?  If we could have dialog instead of a monologue (and I admit, I get long-winded as well, but not because I am trying to control the conversation, I just want him to understand me and address whatever issues he spoke on) I believe we could really get alot of things resolved. 


If resolution is really what is wanted... I wonder about that.  Is it about resolution or control?


Do we really want to understand each other and work things out, or are we so fixed on how we think that we don't know how to talk to each other and respect each other's POV.  He claims he sees my POV and that I don't see his.  I don't feel he understands my POV or if he does, it doesn't matter since the only POV that makes sense is his.  I guess I'm not adventurous enough.  He feels he is compromising his standards.  I know I have compromised mine, but I don't think he thinks my compromise has the same weight as his.  I don't know how to say that right now.  I really want to see his side of the equation so I can understand him better.  So I'm not blinded by my emotional involvement with him.  I would like to be more objective. 


How can I "respond that can facilitate rather than increase the temperature".


I want my relationship to last and grow and increase in understanding each other and loving and accepting each other.  In helping each other to be the best we can be.  I don't want to run away from it.  There's development for us both here.  I don't know where it will lead, I'm believing for the best.  I think we both want to do better and be better able to live a more productive life, individually and collectively.  At least, that is what I believe. 



Aug 17, 2010 -- 8:37PM, ArnieBeeGut wrote:


Not at all! Who else can you change but yourself? And you don't have to be a 'better' person - you are already wonderful and perfect just as you are! For me, 'change' means peeling away the layers of crud that the world has heaped upon us since childhood and revealing the light that is within each of us. Not to 'please' God or anyone else, but because it leads to a better and more satisfying way to be in the world and with others.



This is good, Arnie. Thank you. It's a very sobering and humble way to think.  It promotes gratitude and a healthy attitude about oneself and others.  I understand this and will be aware of living in this mindset. 


~ Rachel

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4 years ago  ::  Aug 18, 2010 - 2:27PM #46
Hatman
Posts: 9,634

Rachel-


Arnie has a DG---a "discussion group"---where he goes into great detail concerning how one can communicate more effectively in interpersonal relationships.


Since the last b-net changeover, however, maneuvering to DG's has become quite annoying, and participation in them has plummeted; however, afaik, all the old posts are still there, and anyone can read and learn from them.


If you click on the "Groups" button in the orange bar to the R of the word "Community," you may (eventually) find "Effective Interpersonal Communication" and get started; alternatively, Arnie may well have some suggestions for you in re: local avenues to explore/people to meet who can help facilitate better communication skills.


Warmest regards-


Hatman


ETA:


Here's a direct link:


community.beliefnet.com/effective_interp...


If you like what you find, bookmark the page, as navigating to it is NOT EASY.

"History records that the moneychangers have used every form of abuse, deceit, intrigue, and violent means possible to maintain their control over governments by controlling money and it's issuance."
-- James Madison(1751-1836), Father of the Constitution for the USA, 4th US President
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4 years ago  ::  Aug 18, 2010 - 8:31PM #47
ArnieBeeGut
Posts: 1,407

Rachel,

There have been certainly wonderful posts in response to your questions - and I was specifically referring to the graciousness with which you have recponded to them!. Even when you have perhaps disagreed or seen things differently, you recognize that what was offered was always with the intent to help. Now, what would happen if that same attitude were applied to your fiance? That is, even when you hear something expressed with which you disagree, what if it was nevertheless seen as coming from the heart.

Aug 18, 2010 -- 11:30AM, rachel219 wrote:

Is this why he keeps bringing up my past? ...


Possibly. And perhaps it is because it has proved to be an effective strategy of diverting attention away from a losing argument. The thing is, you don't have to buy into it. (Not to sound like a broken record, but a specific example would be helpful) If something is brought up from the past that you felt was resolved, you could say "I was under the impression that issue had been resolved. Perhaps you have some lingering feelings over that." To which he would say ...? Perhaps when something is called "emotional" it is somehow perceived as being invalid. In a conversation it is important to also respond to what is actually said and not to what is being implied.

Aug 18, 2010 -- 11:30AM, rachel219 wrote:

Could you explain this a little more, Arnie?  I don't quite understand and I want to.


What I meant was that this is an opportunity for you to explore your feelings over disagreements. Since any two people inevitably disagree about some things, it is often the case that the feelings being triggered have deeper roots than what the argumeht seems to be about. You cannot change him or "make" him agree  with you. If you find yourself reacting to a difference of opinions, then that is something you can change. And what I am suggesting is to look at what thoughts and beliefs you have about yourself and others when there is a difference. For example, as a girl, what happened when you expressed an opinion that was different from that of your parents? It is often the case that the same feelings that were triggered then get stimulated again with an intimate partner.

Regarding conflict: it's not a matter of "correct" or "incorrect" - most people share the belief that conflict is somehow an indication that there is something wrong with a relationship or that one is with the wrong person. This is just one of many common beliefs that turn out to not be particularly useful in a relationship.

What I have been learning and advocating is an approach of validating the other person, even when there is disagreement. This can be a challenging thing to do - and is ideally learned and practiced in person. That is because non-verbal cues are much more important than the words themselves, and here there are only words. Validating the 20 minute lecture might look something like "So it would be hard to accept the possibility of any other perspective." Or perhaps: "So you don't feel that I have anything worthwhile to say about the subject." Regarding whether you see his POV, you could say something like: "Perhaps you could express what it is you feel is not being understood."

Remember that it is never truly possible to be "objective" - least of all when it comes to relationships. Feelings and emotions are just as valid - if not more so - than thoughts, opinions, and judgments. Perhaps it would surprise you to learn that men are at least as emotional as women! A psychologist has studied this and determined that during conflict with a partner, when men appear to be calm and "rational," their emotions, as measured by physiological responses, are raging to a greater extent than the women. So part of the problem men have is the fact that the emotions are there, but unacknowledged.

You certainly are being presented with an opportunity in this relationship, and you are wise to take the attitude expressed. Regardless of how it turns out, you will be better off for the experience!

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4 years ago  ::  Dec 27, 2010 - 12:06AM #48
rachel219
Posts: 30

 


I'm ok.  I'm getting better. :)  It ain't always easy nor has it been all that "congenial".  I've got to learn not be led off the subject and down the road to emotion.


I want so much to know my fiance better, but not from his perspective totally because people never see themselves the way others do.   But as Arnie said in another post, validate the other person's POV (acknowledge it and  their right to it) as well as honor your own.


I don't know what the future holds, but I know I am better now than I was before.  I'm better now than I was in my whole life.


Thank you all for your prayers and insights.  I've read other threads and they have been such a help to my understanding of various things.


I'll still have questions, because I don't know everything.  However, I've taken my power back.  Let the chips fall where they will. 


I love my fiance.  I do.  I'm taking more responsibility for what I have allowed to happen in my life, whether for love or acceptance.  One would want people to read your mind and understand you better, but that is not always the case.  Many times, you just have to let them know.  It doesn't have to be done in a mean or abrasive way.


Father God, give me wisdom and understanding.  Send it, now.  I thank you, Lord, for this forum and yes, the world wide web.  Another channel in which You can work through.

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4 years ago  ::  Apr 25, 2011 - 12:54AM #49
rachel219
Posts: 30

I've left him. It's over.  Exactly three years to the day that we met.  It was ugly, the ending. 


We ended because he couldn't have control anymore.  He didn't like it, as Hatman had once said.  Therefore, if he couldn't have control, then he wasn't going to stand by and see the control taken from him if he could help it. 


I didn't want it to end the way that it did.   There were logical, rational reasons why our engagement ended, however, they weren't calmly discussed due to so much emotion.  I wanted him to know what the problems were in our relationship -- his controlling nature and my allowing him to control because I just didn't know any better and I didn't want a lot of drama.  When we met, I hadn't been in a relationship for over nine years, and I'd always had my own place and a good job.  However, not long after we got engaged in  early 2009, I lost my job two months later.  Because we had leased a house together in Novemeber 2008, I didn't renew my lease on my home I'd live in for three years in June 2009.  I moved into the house we leased together.


more... 

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4 years ago  ::  Apr 25, 2011 - 12:55AM #50
rachel219
Posts: 30

Understand that I was always a responsible, independent person.  It was very distracting to me to not be able to find work.  I associated my ability to provide a good income to my self-worth.  I'd always made a very good salary as a software engineer.  However, I was having such trouble finding work.  Almost like I was cursed.  As such, I didn't feel like I had a "say" in many things because my income was so limited, and he used this to his advantage.  Plus, the fact of our living together, I just couldn't get myself out my own self-condemnation. 


However, I started going back to church and praying.  In early fall of 2010, I rededicated my life to the Lord and I told my fiance what I had done as well.  We discussed the intimacy and how I felt it impacted our relationship.  A month later, he finally agreed to 'abstain" from sex and dedicate this part of our relationship to honor God.  We would no longer be intimate until marriage.  In December 2010, I moved out of our room into another room in the house because when I would suggest moving out of the house, he told me if I'd left, our relationship was over. 


more...

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