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3 years ago  ::  Jan 27, 2010 - 4:25AM #1
Kelly
Posts: 2
Hi
Im new to this forum, but heres a question i really ned advise or help with please...
I am a divorced methodist, and i wish to remarry and have mine & my new partners wedding rings blessed in church, he is a Roman catholic but we cannot marry or get a blessing from them and wondered would a methodist blessing be possible?

many thanks for reading and any help would be great :)
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3 years ago  ::  Jan 27, 2010 - 5:30PM #2
Erey
Posts: 15,068

I don't know about a Methodist blessing but I am pretty sure you should be able to get some kind of Christian blessing. 


I went to a Methodist church for several years and never heard of a ring blessing. 

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3 years ago  ::  Jan 27, 2010 - 9:25PM #3
Hatman
Posts: 9,477

Kelly-


Christ called a nation of believers, all priests, to be His ekklesia, His church.


In it, none are greater or less than another; indeed, at the Last Supper He specifically forbade the exercise of either dominion or authority by any of His disciples over any others.


Therefore, you may each bless each other's ring in any place that you like, and they will be just as blessed as if a priest or pastor had done so; clergy has no special powers to bless or curse any more than any of His disciples.


What concerns me more than that issue would be whether or not y'all know---or are even aware---of the differences between a secular marriage and holy matrimony.


In the former, the State becomes not only the third party in your union, but the Superior partner; in the latter, Our Father blesses the union that no man may separate.


If you'd like to read more on the subject, check these out:


www.fourwinds10.com/siterun_data/governm...


There are 2 articles here, one right after the other, that were collected from entirely different sources---and you can find enough keywords to further research the matter, if you wish it so.


Once you obtain your blesséd joining in Holy Matrimony, witnessed by family and friends, you may still NOTIFY your SERVANT government that a marriage has taken place---that you don't NEED their "permission slip," and they are to record the fact of your marriage in their records.


Warmest regards-


Hatman

"History records that the moneychangers have used every form of abuse, deceit, intrigue, and violent means possible to maintain their control over governments by controlling money and it's issuance."
-- James Madison(1751-1836), Father of the Constitution for the USA, 4th US President
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3 years ago  ::  Jan 28, 2010 - 3:38PM #4
Tolerant Sis
Posts: 4,201

A marriage license gives you many, many benefits, which is why people who are denied that civil right are so vocal about it, and rightly so.


In any church in the country, the priest, minister, officiant, whatever, says, 'by the power vested in me by the state of ...., I pronounce you husband and wife.'  That is, every marriage is a civil marriage, even though it may also be blessed religiously.


How you proceed depends upon you.  Churches are private clubs and do not have to honor your request for a blessing (as you know from the Catholic Church).  However, you should be able to find an officiant to conduct your wedding ceremony, which can take place anywhere, of course, from your living room to the top of a mountain to the shores of the ocean.  Most churches, including the Methodist church, will in fact marry divorced people, but a particular minister may object, in which case he will refer you to a minister without concerns about it.


If all you want is a blessing after the civil marriage, that should be no issue at all.


 

First amendment fan since 1793.
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3 years ago  ::  Jan 28, 2010 - 3:59PM #5
Hatman
Posts: 9,477
Caesar ALWAYS offers "many benefits" for the slavery they then impose, since those who foolishly and voluntarily went under their authority and dominion have exchanged the blessings of God for the ersatz blessing of the State---especially a State bankrupted and enslaved to the powers of Mammon, which disciples of Christ are forbidden to serve.

Disciples of Christ, if they are honest and honorable, reject the State and obey God rather than man.

In America, until 1920 or so, NO ONE needed a "license" to marry.  Those who founded this country would have abhorred and vociferously renounced such an imposition of despotism and tyranny.

Washington didn't get a license to marry.
Jefferson didn't.
Madison didn't.
Jackson didn't.
Patrick Henry didn't.
Thomas Paine didn't.
None of the Adams' had to.
None of the Websters did.
Lincoln didn't.

So for what hidden purposes did the State Unconstitutionally arrogate to itself this power to regulate or deny marriages?

"It is proper to take alarm at the first experiment on our liberties.  We hold this prudent jealousy to be the first duty of citizens, and one of the noblest characteristics of the late Revolution.  The freeman of America did not wait till usurped power had strengthened itself by exercise, and entangled the question in precedents.  They saw all the consequences in the principle, and they avoided the consequences by denying the principle."
-- James Madison(1751-1836), Father of the Constitution for the USA, 4th US President
Source: "A Memorial and Remonstrance", 1785: Works 1:163

With goodwill to all the People-

Hatman
"History records that the moneychangers have used every form of abuse, deceit, intrigue, and violent means possible to maintain their control over governments by controlling money and it's issuance."
-- James Madison(1751-1836), Father of the Constitution for the USA, 4th US President
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3 years ago  ::  Jan 28, 2010 - 11:22PM #6
SatanicStalker
Posts: 717

I'm curious about this, Hatman. Say my boyfriend and I get married in a personal ceremony with no marriage license, then walk into the local courthouse and claim we are married. Even if we didn't walk in and inform them of our marriage, our state is a common-law state so if we live together, call one another husband and wife, act as husband and wife, pool our resources, etc. in our state we are legally married. 


In this case, does the state have any less authority over us or our marriage than if we had gotten a marriage license? Or is the refusal to get a marriage license just a decision to make on principle? 


And to Tolerant Sis: if we were to go ahead with the hypothetical situation above, getting married with no license in a common-law state, would the benefits be any different than if we had received a license?


~Stalker

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3 years ago  ::  Jan 29, 2010 - 12:37AM #7
SatanicStalker
Posts: 717

That the government it denying the right to marry to a certain group could be seen as a reason to not seek a marriage license -to, in essence, tell the government "I do not need your permission to marry, nor do I recognize your authority to grant or deny me -or anyone else- that permission."


~Stalker

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3 years ago  ::  Jan 29, 2010 - 1:34AM #8
Hatman
Posts: 9,477

Jan 28, 2010 -- 11:22PM, SatanicStalker wrote:

I'm curious about this, Hatman. Say my boyfriend and I get married in a personal ceremony with no marriage license, then walk into the local courthouse and claim we are married.


Bring evidence(video of the wedding, wedding pics, guest register, the recordation of the fact in your family Bible or equivalent), "serve notice"(a legal term one should familiarize themselves with) upon them that they are to record the fact of your marriage, and if they refuse, get their name(s) just before casually mentioning that, as Recorders, their job is to RECORD, not practice law...and that malfeasance or refusal to perform the lawful duties of their office is usually grounds for dismissal, if not civil liability.  "Claim" nothing.  SHOW them the fact, and demand official recognition of what is a fait accompli by the "service of notice"...or get a hearing before a judge so that a "writ of mandamus" can COMPEL the recalcitrant knucklehead to do his(or her) JOB!

Even if we didn't walk in and inform them of our marriage, our state is a common-law state so if we live together, call one another husband and wife, act as husband and wife, pool our resources, etc. in our state we are legally married.


Not a lawyer, here, but either you have a servant government that secures the blessings of liberty to you, or you have a dictatorial, tyrannical, despotic government that tells you what you may or may not do...and the latter case is what resulted in violent overthrow once upon a time.  A bee for the bonnet of any duly-sworn public servant, eh?  But if the common law still applies in your area(i'd check that out if i were you; in most cases, you cannot find a lawfully-constituted common law court because in common law, REAL money must be used---not empty, valueless IOU nothings like the FRN's currently extant, in exchange for goods or services), then the testimony of witnesses and accompanying documentation should be more than enough to establish not only identity, but marital status. 


In this case, does the state have any less authority over us or our marriage than if we had gotten a marriage license?


Indeed, yes, if the linked articles are factual, as i believe they are---and if you also refuse to accept their "benefits" in the form of a social slavery number, etc., which is a purely voluntary system, and refuse to allow them to saddle any children of the marriage with said numbers, either---although you'll find many others trying their level best to convince you that this is not so, that one simply MUST have an SSN to be a "Good citizen" or other bullcrap du jour.  For example, children of a "licensed" marriage can be taken from any couple for just about any reason or even pretext, whereas those who are NOT so registered have a far higher standard that must be met before that kind of kidnapping would be anywhere close to being considered lawful.

Or is the refusal to get a marriage license just a decision to make on principle? 


As perhaps could be logically inferred from Madison's quote, if you neither object to an unlawful usurpation of power, nor exercise the Rights that gov't agents are sworn to secure and protect "against all enemies, foreign and domestic," courts routinely have ruled that you have voluntarily relinquished them, as in "a right not exercised is a right abandoned."

If you're interested in more detail on this and other matters related to Liberty and it's opposite, feel free to contact me via my profile, and i'll share a few things that rather correspond with the following cite i once used as my signature line:

"A truth's initial commotion is directly proportional to how deeply the lie was believed.  It was not the world being round that agitated people, but that it wasn't flat.  When a well-packaged web of lies has been gradually sold to the masses over generations, the truth will seem utterly preposterous---and it's speaker, a raving lunatic."
~Dresden James.

As i'm rather disinclined to share the results of many years of research with Philistines who care nothing for Truth, but prefer a comfortable lie, instead, who seek for an "excuse not to think for those who didn't want to think anyway," who stand ready at all times to defend their most precious possession---their ignorance---i stick my neck out rarely on these public boards any longer, for even though i can stand ridicule and contempt, i don't like it.

Warmest regards-

Hatman

And to Tolerant Sis: if we were to go ahead with the hypothetical situation above, getting married with no license in a common-law state, would the benefits be any different than if we had received a license?


~Stalker






Not TS, here, but if you read the linked articles, the facts are laid out plainly; one who obtains a "license" to marry also enters into a contract.  For any contract to be lawful and binding, three elements must all be present: Offer, Acceptance, and Consideration.  In the case of the marriage "license," the "consideration" is "the right to be regulated by statute."  Don't sound just or fair to ME, but YMMV---and if you later object, too bad---unless you can prove fraud by omission of pertinent facts, which is very easy to do in most cases of "legal" marriage.  Part of those statutes are the child support statutes, the divorce statutes, the visitation statutes, and so on.  There's quite a difference, more's the pity, between "legal" and "lawful," which more Americans would do well to apprise themselves of asap.

"History records that the moneychangers have used every form of abuse, deceit, intrigue, and violent means possible to maintain their control over governments by controlling money and it's issuance."
-- James Madison(1751-1836), Father of the Constitution for the USA, 4th US President
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3 years ago  ::  Jan 29, 2010 - 11:23AM #9
Tolerant Sis
Posts: 4,201

Jan 28, 2010 -- 11:22PM, SatanicStalker wrote:


I'm curious about this, Hatman. Say my boyfriend and I get married in a personal ceremony with no marriage license, then walk into the local courthouse and claim we are married. Even if we didn't walk in and inform them of our marriage, our state is a common-law state so if we live together, call one another husband and wife, act as husband and wife, pool our resources, etc. in our state we are legally married. 


In this case, does the state have any less authority over us or our marriage than if we had gotten a marriage license? Or is the refusal to get a marriage license just a decision to make on principle? 


And to Tolerant Sis: if we were to go ahead with the hypothetical situation above, getting married with no license in a common-law state, would the benefits be any different than if we had received a license?


~Stalker




Most common-law marriages do not legally begin (for tax and other purposes) until six years after the beginning of cohabitation. And many states where common-law marriage was once legal are changing their laws.  It's only legal in a handful of states at this time, and if you move to another state before the common-law period is over, you are legally unmarried and have to go through the legal process anyhow.  


This can have catastrophic effects on your finances, and family.  


For instance, let's say things don't work out.  While you can establish contracts to protect one another at great expense (marriage does it all automatically), most common-law partners never bother - they don't trust the government or whatever in the first place - and so when it's time to split things up, it's done as if you were never married at all.  The car in your name is yours, the credit card bill in his name is his, the child you gave birth to is yours, the dog he paid for but gave to your children is his, the house you bought together gets split up according to how much each partner put into it financially, and it is ultimately unfair to one party or the other and very unfair to any children of the union.


But even if it does work out, there are a lot of federal and state benefits you miss out on for many years, that you are paying taxes for.  You have to file separately for those six years, which means you are both paying more in tax than you would be together; your children are taken as dependents of one or the other but not both; you may be unable to take a deduction on the house if it is in his name (or even if it is in both names).


As a matter of 'principle', it's an awfully expensive principle.


 


 

First amendment fan since 1793.
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