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6 years ago  ::  Nov 10, 2008 - 12:38PM #1
DAH54
Posts: 3,318
Have you experience dying to self in a relationship? What does it look like to you? How does it feel to you? Does dying to self mean you shout it to the world at large so they may rejoice with you? Does it mean you share your dying with your SO in perhaps an unspoken desire to get a pat on the back? Or is dying something you simply do, without a desire for an Earthly reward? Without a need to call attention to it? Is dying to self something you take pride in? Is it a tool?



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6 years ago  ::  Nov 10, 2008 - 9:32PM #2
DAH54
Posts: 3,318
Someone I deeply respect told me once upon a time that all relationships fail due to selfishness. What is selfishness but pride run amok. The trouble with selfishness is we are blind to our own selfishness way to often. Just because we are unwilling to acknowledge it doesn't mean that it isn't there. We all have an ego. And all to often that ego gets in the way of our happiness. It's ego, pride that makes us believe we need to proclaim to the world how much we have died to Christ. When weekly we point out to our Significant Other how much we are dying to Christ for them, are we following Christ's teachings on this subject? Jesus told his disciples, “If anyone would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross and follow me. For whoever would save his life will lose it."  What does it actually mean to "deny yourself"? Does deny mean to shout out your pain? James and John coveted the limelight. They replied, “Let one of us sit at your right and the other at your left in your glory." There are many ways to seek the limelight to call attention to ones self. Does dying to self equal demanding that our Significant other accommodate our wants, our desires? It's easy to label a thing a need, if it is a true need can one exist without it?  The answer is of course not. If we can exist without it, then it is not a true need, but rather a desire. To demand that your Significant Other service your desires is ultimately destructive. Pride teaches one that their desires are needs, that their wants are more important than their partners desires.

When you never care to refer to yourself in conversation, or to record your own good works, or itch after commendations, when you can truly love to be unknown. That is dying to self. When your good is evil spoken of, when your wishes are crossed, your advice disregarded, your opinions ridiculed, and you refuse to let anger rise in your heart, or even defend yourself, but take in all in patient, loving silence. That is dying to self.




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6 years ago  ::  Nov 11, 2008 - 12:07AM #3
Anesis
Posts: 1,543
"It's easy to label a thing a need, if it is a true need can one exist without it?  The answer is of course not."

[SIZE=2][COLOR=Black][FONT=Arial]When it comes to existence, there are certain needs for survival. They are not wants; they are needs.

When it comes to a relationship's existence, there are certain needs for the relationship to survive. They are not wants; they are needs.


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6 years ago  ::  Nov 11, 2008 - 9:37AM #4
DAH54
Posts: 3,318
Dying to self and selfishness are at the two opposite ends of the spectrum, IMHO. When one truly dies to self there is no need to trumpet ones dying. Were we not told in Luke 14:11 For everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted. Matthew 6:1 Be careful not to do your 'acts of righteousness' before men, to be seen by them. If you do, you will have no reward from your Father in heaven. Real Dying to self and drawing lines in the sand, are as far from each other as East is from West. Dying to self is not about demanding that your partner meet your needs, it is not a 'real' need if you are willing to forgo it. But rather a desire. You had acknowledge at one time a relationship was a choice. Something you could choose or not choose. To draw a line in the sand and demand that you receive this desire, is a choice to elevate your wants above the relationship.

When you never care to refer to yourself in conversation, or to record your own good works, or itch after commendations, when you can truly love to be unknown. When you are forgotten, or neglected, or purposely set at naught, and you don't sting and hurt with the insult or the oversight, but your heart is happy, being counted worthy to suffer for Christ. That is dying to self. Our relationships test us, make us examine our behavior, they challenge us to look at our thoughts, our own actions.

Some one I care deeply for asked once is it better to hurt or to be hurt? Does Jesus not answer this question for us? What was His choice? What did he chose to do for the ones He loved? Did He not die on the cross? Was that not a choice he freely made? Has He not told you that if you wish to follow him you must also freely die?  Matthew 16:24 Then Jesus said to his disciples, "If anyone would come after me, he must deny himself and take up his cross and follow me. Are you denying yourself when you demand that your partner must preform a task that you have decided you desire? Can it be seen as hypocrisy to demand that your partner preform a task that only you can see, while shouting how you are dying to self, and if your partner would die just a little life would be so much better?

Do absolutes have any place in a loving relationship?

Is it ever true that "You NEVER talk to me?
Is it ever true that "You NEVER say you are sorry?
Is it ever true that "You NEVER apologize?
Is it ever true that "You NEVER measure up?
Is it ever true that "You NEVER "really" wanted it to work?
Is it ever true that "You NEVER took responsibility for anything?
Is it ever true that "You NEVER acknowledge your part in the strife?
Is it ever true that "You NEVER were worth it?

What happens when we take in lies, and accept them as truth?

Again I once had someone I care deeply for quote to me about the power of words from the Bible, they recognized the power of words to pierce like a sword..... except when it came to their own words....



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6 years ago  ::  Nov 11, 2008 - 11:56AM #5
rickyvilleza
Posts: 81
For me 'dying to myself ' in my situation means ignoring the hurts that inadverntantly (or otherwise) comes
from being in a close relationship.  My love used to be so tender and giving and expressive in her love for me,
and it stopped 2.1/2 months ago.  When we're together, she loves me as she always does and everything is wonderful, but I crave the focus and attention and tender messages she would send me very often.

When it first stopped, I was alternately angered, puzzled and frustrated.  I still am.  But my anger has subsided,
and my patience has overtaken my need and craving for the emotional gratifications.

I realize she is going through a myriad of issues and problems, emotional, mental and legal, and she has not focused her attention on me like is was just a short time ago.  I have decided to die to myself as long as I can hang on.  I do believe she loves me, and every so often, she will let me know, but it sure hurts to
be taken for granted often.  I am often spoken of (at least it seems), like I am way down the list of priorities.
Like everybody else is wonderful except me.
And yet she calls me everyday, sometimes more than once.  I am aware of my own faults and annoying tendencies and I am watchful of our relationship and constantly searching for the real love (my own and hers) underneath all the day to day issues and chatter.  She goes in cycles and she'll go through a month or two of coldness and distance, but she always comes around again, eventually.  When she's back on her upcyle, it's bliss.

Nevertheless;  that's where I am and dying to self.
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6 years ago  ::  Nov 11, 2008 - 12:09PM #6
DAH54
Posts: 3,318
Thanks for the input! So do you tell her how much you are dying to self? Do you tell her how much you miss the "quality" conversations during this time period? Do you make her aware of how she is failing to meet your needs?



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6 years ago  ::  Nov 11, 2008 - 12:31PM #7
Cesmom
Posts: 5,336

DAH54 wrote:

Do absolutes have any place in a loving relationship?

Is it ever true that "You NEVER talk to me?
Is it ever true that "You NEVER say you are sorry?
Is it ever true that "You NEVER apologize?
Is it ever true that "You NEVER measure up?
Is it ever true that "You NEVER "really" wanted it to work?
Is it ever true that "You NEVER took responsibility for anything?
Is it ever true that "You NEVER acknowledge your part in the strife?
Is it ever true that "You NEVER were worth it?

What happens when we take in lies, and accept them as truth?


Statements like these just prove how most of us aren't perfect in our communication skills.  I might say to my husband, for example, "You NEVER say you're sorry" because of how I am feeling at that moment.  My frustration and hurt are so intense that, at that moment, I can't remember a time you ever said you were sorry, and I'm not in a frame of mind to try to remember because I'm angry at you.  Absolute statements like that are rarely true, and not the best way to communicate in a loving relationship, but we're only human, and I can see why statements like that are sometimes made.  The person making the statement may be doing so with complete sincerity at that very moment, even if it is not the actual truth.

Our need to learn should always outweigh our need to be right

It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.

More people would learn from their mistakes if they weren't so busy denying them.
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6 years ago  ::  Nov 11, 2008 - 1:23PM #8
Hipi75
Posts: 220
Dying to yourself... do you mean self-sacrifice, or losing your identity?  Do you completely overhaul your identity to accomodate someone else's desires?  Does Christ completely overhaul us?  I don't think so.  A person with a rebellious heart who finds Christ does not stop rebelling... they just stop rebelling against Righteousness & start rebelling against wickedness.  They might have gotten their mind straight, but their heart remains the same.  Why?  Christ renews the mind.  Jesus takes the being, purifies it, strengthens it & sets it right.  He doesn't wipe it away completely & start over from scratch.  If He did, there would be no reason for Redemption.

You have to be careful with self sacrifice.  It is a good thing & sometimes necessary, especially in relationships.  But when it gets to the point that it's destroying you, you've got to put a limit on it.  After all, if that person really loves you, they won't want you to be destroyed.  This I learned from my own experience.

I think that if you want to know how to treat someone lovingly, look up what Love is in the Bible & follow that.
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6 years ago  ::  Nov 11, 2008 - 1:33PM #9
Anesis
Posts: 1,543
"Do absolutes have any place in a loving relationship?"

Sometimes there are absolutes in relationships, especially when you are talking about perceptions. My dad never told me he loved me until I was about 35 years old. Now I can't say he never loves me, but I have never heard him say it again.

If you want to talk about dying to self and absolutes in the same thread, you might want to consider that the one who is hearing the absolutes might want to die to self when it comes to hearing them, rather than criticize the one who is hearing them.
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6 years ago  ::  Nov 11, 2008 - 3:02PM #10
ArnieBeeGut
Posts: 1,407
Interesting topic.

For me, "dying to self" is more like "dying to one's ego" and responding from one's essential nature ("Christ within").  The ego is what is hurt and resentful at the perceived slights in a relationships.  It is the source of "pride," whereas one's inner Being is the source of esteem - the inherent goodness of oneself and of others.

This is what allows one to recognize the pain being expressed by "absolutes" and to not take them personally.  Each is in fact a coded message that speaks to an unmet desire and the pain of not having that.

It's like what CESMom said about feeling frustrated and hurt and expressing those extreme feelings in an extreme way.

"You never talk to me" means something completely different than the surface words.  Rather, it likely means something like "I am missing the wonderful conversations that we used to have and want to have more of them.  I am feeling lonely without that connection."  [I'm not saying that this is in fact the underlying pain, just one possibility.]

So for the one hearing statements like these, "dying to self" to me means seeing the pain behind them and not reacting with one's own hurt feelings or becoming defensive.

For the one in pain, "dying to self" would mean connecting with those underlying feelings and expressing them in a way that is easier for the other person to hear.

Bu that's just me.

Blessings,
Arnie
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