it would also be something broken that didn't really need to be. And I would have been without his support further on down the road, when I needed it even more.

Now, if he had taken my forgiving him as an excuse to keep on cheating, and hadn't shown such regard for my feelings, that would have been a completely different picture. I would have been a doormat if I took him back under those circumstances.

Yes, and yes.

Just my two cents here in the form of tough love...

One lets go when they have grown/healed enough to no longer need the crutch. We don't forgive because we find it useful not to forgive. We feel an advantage in not forgiving. It gives us justification for doing what we feel is 'right'. Depending on just where you are in your growth/healing that might be a very bitter pill to swallow.

It's always possible to have picked a bad person to say "I do" with. (and in a way that is a failure on our part to not truly know the one we agree to marry) Cheating is a failure of both in the marriage; IMHO... It does not happen in a void. Both played a role in the cheating, at the very least you did not truly know the person you chose to marry. That is very hard for some people to accept, to acknowledge, and to forgive. Even hard to change.

My experience is those who have managed to survive cheating generally acknowledge that both played some part in the cheating, and in part were responsible for a share of it. That does not mean the shares were 50% 50%, just that both can acknowledge something they did wrong.

IMHO you need to reestablish trust. Trust not only of your partner but trust in yourself as well.


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appy20 wrote:

The problem with accepting responsibility for someone else cheating is that gives everyone the right to cheat.

I never suggested accepting responsibility for someone else, but rather accepting responsibility for ones part in the cheating. Relationships simply don't happen in a vacuum with only one person. Relationships are the interactions of two or more people.

Now one can "blame" cheating on genes, and pretend that "bad" genes caused the problem, but is that anymore than an enabling technique? Does that accomplish anything more than permitting one partner to feel victimized, and one partner to be demonized?

appy20 wrote:

In other words, if my spouse is not perfect, I can cheat.

That is not what I have stated, or suggested. Cheating if we are honest is always an option, for either partner. It is a choice, cheating damages relationships, and something like 70% of relationships don't survive when the other partner is aware of the cheating. The door to cheating is always open, we can choose to take steps not to encourage our partner to walk through that door, or we can pretend the door does not exist. We can deny it's existence but that does not make it go away.

appy20 wrote:

Since no one is perfect, that pretty much opens the door to cheating. I see that women get a disproportionate part of the blame here.

I have suggested that one look at their own actions, figured out their part in the failure of the relationship. Interesting that you see women being blamed disproportionately.

appy20 wrote:

Men are to be forgiven and women are to be punished.

I have not talked about punishing anyone! Often we punish ourselves. This thread was about getting over being cheated on, in my experience you can not get over, while actively punishing another! Nor in my experience is learning from our mistakes a form of punishment.

appy20 wrote:

It is a pattern. I have yet to see a list of allowed imperfections that women are permitted to have.

Are you claiming there is a universal list of permitted imperfections that all men are allowed? I've yet to see such a list, beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and what is and is not an imperfection is also in the eye of the beholder. If we are honest nothing is universally condemn by everyone. No one is so "bad" that they can not find someone, if they are willing. Some people set their desires so high however that they will find no one.

appy20 wrote:

Also, this view does not take account biology. Some people are biologically wired to cheat.

I for one would be most interested in any peer reviewed study that you can provide that states if you have this gene you will cheat. IMHO cheating is more that simple biology, to blame it on biology is no more helpful than to blame it 100% on one's partner. It is a complex choice.

appy20 wrote:

Also, women with mental illnesses are prone to cheating and it isn't fair to their partners to be blamed, in any part, for that.

So if my partner has a mental illness I am free to deny that I played any part in her emotional state? A woman with a mental illness is free to disassociate her actions from her choices? She is not responsible if she cheats? Her husband has not played a role in her choice to cheat, if he refuses to have sex with her? If he refuses to talk to her about anything meaningful in their lives? If the husband refuses to touch his spouse, refuses to demonstrate that he values her? Now perhaps you would argue this is an extreme case, but you claimed not "in any part".

appy20 wrote:

Another thing that really irks me is that I don't believe that cheating partners are entitled to perfect spouses.

Again no one has stated anyone is entitled to a perfect spouse, until you did! Indeed I can not think of a more horrible life than being stuck with a "perfect spouse"! It is NOT what I would want. This is not about finding the "perfect spouse" marriage is about growth and learning, and that means change, if one is "perfect" one doesn't need change ~ and that will kill a relationship in my opinion.

appy20 wrote:

If I am cheated on and found to be imperfect, I just think that it is not fair to work all that hard to make myself perfect for someone who is going to cheat if I don't. Someone who is also not perfect in addition to cheating. That kind of keeps one partner jumping through hoops all of the time. Just because a person cheats on their spouse does not mean they are perfect in other ways. That mentality that says "hey, I cheated on you, you better shape up" really sticks in my craw.

We can all hear what we want to hear. One is free to believe in ones own righteousness. One can choose to frame their work as jumping through hoops. One can tell oneself that they are happy and they don't need anyone in their life. That will not change the fact that studies suggest that if one has someone to share ones life with (who respects them) they will live longer. Does one need a partner? No. Is one likely to have a better quality of life with a partner that values them and respects them? Yes.

appy20 wrote:

If someone cheated on me (and no one ever has), I would work to improve myself but I am not going to waste those improvements on a cheater.

Interesting in light of the apparent belief that cheating is in the genes. You would it would appear be willing to hold someone accountable for something they have no (to little) control over. And you would "work to improve yourself" but not hold yourself accountable in any part? If you played no part in the cheating I personally fail to see how you could improve on that.



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Let's talk about forgiveness for a bit...

Blame is a normal & natural reaction to loss. One feels as though you need to blame someone; your spouse, God, yourself, friends, or the one your spouse cheated with. It is easy, far too easy to turn someone into a scapegoat.

The problem with blame however is what it nourishes. Blame and anger work together to grow resentment. When you feed your anger with accusations and self justified shifting of responsibility, you will begin to seethe with resentment. from resentment springs forth bitterness. Bitterness is a slow disease that eats away at ones soul, it eats you from the inside out, but seldom affects the one your bitterness revolves around. It leaves you alone and lonely... Perhaps you can find a few on this thread who have suffered a lost, and have decided to forgive and move on? Perhaps there are some here who have decided not to forgive? Perhaps the contrast of the two views will help you decide what you wish to do?

In my opinion forgiveness is something you primarily do for yourself. It is giving yourself permission not to relive the hurt and pain each day. It's saying you don't need to focus on what should have been and what could have been. It's giving yourself permission to move on. Forgiveness is an acknowledgment that I made a mistake, and that is okay life goes on... The world didn't end because I made a mistake. Because I trusted. Forgiveness in one sense is about trust, it's the acknowledgment that I trusted someone that perhaps I shouldn't' have at that point.
But I need to know that because I trusted, and that trust was abused, that it is okay for me to trust again. IMHO that is forgiveness the knowledge that it is okay to trust again. Yes I suffered a lost, something was taken, I experienced pain; hurt. But I lived through it, and I can trust again... IMHO there is nothing more hurtful than being married to someone that doesn't trust you. I believe once you know that you can never really trust your spouse again you need to end your relationship. And someone you don't really trust you have no business marring. Trust is such a foundational corner stone that so much else of marriage is built upon that without it you have nothing else of real value.

Trust is a choice that we all choose to make, or not make. Trust is the knowledge that I am giving you a chance to hurt me, but I choose to believe in your goodness, rather than focus on your evilness. How much you trust another is about how big a chance you are willing to accept of them hurting you. We can hold someone at a distance, never letting them close, and all they can do is beat our hands, or we can let them closer, in past our defenses, and bare our heart to them. Ultimately for me life's rewards are about how close I am willing to let another into my life, about how willing I am to bare my soul. Forgiveness is a willingness to bare my torn and abused heart to another. Forgiveness is the knowledge that my heart is no longer perfect, it has been bruised, kicked, punched, and stabbed, but yet I am willing to bare it to another, to my partner once again. That I'm willing to let them in past my defenses because I choose to believe in them...... A lack of forgiveness is an unwillingness to let them get close enough to hurt me again. It is the knowledge that they will hurt me given a chance, by choice! It is the idea that if I keep everyone away I'm safe from more pain, that if I keep them far enough away I will never hurt again... Unforgiveness is about fear, and mistrust of others, it's about the belief one needs to always be on guard.



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I really can't get over the fact that so many think cheating is ok if a person is imperfect but and cheating is okay if you are perfect.  Geesh, you can't win.   He can cheat at any time.  Cheating is no big deail,  it is okay.  Why not just admit that monogamy is not valued by you?  Why not have an open marriage?    If I am imperfect and someone cheats, then my point is that yes, I might need to change something but that person is not worth changing for.  I will improve for myself but not for someone who cheats.  Now, if someone has a problem with me before they cheat and they want me to make some constructive changes, that is the time to do it.  After cheating, the relationship is no longer one that I want. It is too late then. There wouldn't be any drama about this either.  I would just pack and leave.

Yes, I do believe some people are genetically inclined to be cheaters and I don't want to be married to them.  That is why I would have liked a test before marriage. I especially would not like being blamed for causing a genetically inclined cheater to cheat.  That would really rankle me.

When i did date, I hoped to find someone that could weather life and all its imperfections together.  Infidelity doesn't fall into that picture.  Infidelity is the deal breaker. Yes, it is an imperfection but to me it is in the same category as murder, child molestation, serial killing, etc.  Some things are just a deal breaker.  Not everyone has the same deal breakers.  However, I know a lot of women who want monogamous men.  Men always ask what women want.  Some us want monogamy.   Everyone is imperfect and that is no reason for another to cheat.  I can love a guy with a whole host of imperfections but that is not one of them.  All marriages have difficult times and the only men that were worth my while are those that can endure without straying. 

When I did date, I did state it up front but then let it go.  I was not insecure because I trusted  the guys I dated  and they didn't cheat.  I think people should be able to trust their mates and believe that they are faithful.  I would rather die than be in Elizabeth Edwards' position.  I feel that she wasted her entire life with that dud. I find her denial embarrassing.