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6 years ago  ::  Feb 10, 2009 - 10:13AM #21
KatherineOrthodixie
Posts: 3,689

CESMom wrote:

If she's incapable of giving you, or anyone else, what is needed in a relationship, you may have no choice but to walk away, unless you want to continue to settle for less than you need.


And this is, IMHO, the essence of the situation. The choice is yours - and only you can make it - do you want to stay in a relationship on her terms, knowing that she may never want/be able to have the kind of relationship you need, and knowing that, while you can certainly love and support her, you cannot heal her or make her into the kind of person you want/need - are you willing to settle for less than you want/need, for the foreseeable future, and perhaps for the rest of your life?

“The Law of the Church is to give oneself to what is given not to seek one’s own.” Fr. Alexander Schmemann
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6 years ago  ::  Feb 10, 2009 - 1:39PM #22
rickyvilleza
Posts: 81
After really, really appreciating all the responses I'm getting, I must thank you all.

But I must clarify one thing;  I have not been waiting 20 months for her to make a comittment to me.

She drifts in and out of this 'comittment issue'.  When she called me 'her man' and 'my boyfriend'
out in public in November, I was perfectly happy with that, even thrilled!

The problem is it changes from week to week, month to month.  So to everyone;  I am not trying to 'change'
her in the sense that she finds it impossible to aknowledge our relationship at all.
I only want a little bit more security from her; is that so selfish?

How can it be that she will say one day "I just want to be friends", but two weeks later we sleep together,
(we only cuddle and hold each other now becasue of her celibacy issue) and make out like lovers.
She'll hold me through the night and give me very intimate love.  Freinds don't do that!  At least not on a consistent basis, otherwise they're not just friends, that's my whole point.
She'll call me 'my boyfriend' to her mason one day, but the next day, if I call her 'my girlfriend' she won't aknowledge it.

She called me last week, and after I told her how many times the week before she fell asleep in my arms,
she aknowledged that I'm the only man in the world she trusts and she told me "I love you". 

I get a different lady every week or month, and the pattern repeats itself.

My head tells me to get out of this, but my heart is keeping me hoping.

I'm also praying to God on a daily basis to be with her and guide both of us no matter what.

Right now my head is duking it out with my heart in a knock down drag out fight, and I don't know who's going to win.
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6 years ago  ::  Feb 10, 2009 - 1:42PM #23
KatherineOrthodixie
Posts: 3,689

That one can not make a difference in another's life?


Obviously I didn't say that. Which is one reason I used quotation marks.

But let me clarify anyway: only we can change ourselves. Other people can support us in our attempts, can care for us, encourage us and all the rest. But if we want to change, we are the ones who have to do it.

“The Law of the Church is to give oneself to what is given not to seek one’s own.” Fr. Alexander Schmemann
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6 years ago  ::  Feb 10, 2009 - 3:03PM #24
Cesmom
Posts: 4,640
What you need is not selfish, Ricky.  It just seems with all of her back and forth and changing her mind that she's not really sure what she wants or needs.  I'm sure a lot of this stems from the abusive relationship she came out of.  I'm sure that she can benefit from your love and friendship and support.  The thing is, I can't see anything you can do to change the way she is going back and forth right now.  She seems to be fighting her own internal demons, and who knows how long that will take her.  Couples therapy is never a bad idea, but I think she really needs to focus on her own therapy right now before she has much to offer in a relationship.  I know you'd like to make everything better for her and for both of you, but I'm not sure that's something YOU can do at this point.
Our need to learn should always outweigh our need to be right

It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.

More people would learn from their mistakes if they weren't so busy denying them.
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5 years ago  ::  Mar 04, 2009 - 1:08PM #25
rickyvilleza
Posts: 81

Ok folks, here's an update on what's happend in the last few weeks since I posted;


I met another lady and asked my ex-girlfriend if it was ok to date and she said yes.


She even encouraged it.  So we agreed to be friends only, and that's what I expected in my last visit.  I am now dating this other Lady and see how it goes, but even my new Lady knows I'm still in love with my ex.


My ex. came to visit me and here's what we talked about and what happened;


1  She told me she's also dated another guy twice, but no chemistry between them and he's a nice guy, but she still can't be alone with another guy ever and just wants to see him maybe as a friend in public places.  This has been her MO before and after our relationship.  She agrees I am the only man she can trust and be alone with, still.  She hasn't been returning his calls lately, but says she might call him in acouple of weeks when she gets back for friendly date.


2  The first day we got together she got real sexy with me and made love to me (not sex), but got all smoochy, tongue kissing, love biting, et.  She repeated her old line about how she loves me, but only as a friend, but then what is all the loving about?  I didn't start it!!!!!   Talk about mixed messages!   I didn't even expect a kiss, but I got a lot more and she even wanted to hold my hand.


3.  We talked about sex and how she still isn't interested in it ever, and I repeated to her how I don't care.  Companionship, intimacy (affection, kissing, et.) are far more important to me than sex.  But she doesn't buy that.  Said how I am such an exceptional man and I need someone who can fullfil my needs, and that she doesn't think she can do it.  When I told her that she fullfills my needs already, she is just silent.  She doesn't seem to buy it.  she told me in the days when we were having sex, she said "don't mistake lust for romantic sex".  What the !@@#$%$@#@does that mean?


4. Says she needs to be free, but she hasn't really dated since December except that one guy mentioned above, and she can't even be alone with him.


5.  I told her how we have had romance even now and she said don't mistake lust for romantic love.  She insists she loves me, but only as a friend, so what's all this loving that she does to me?


She has always sent these mixed messages off and on to me since we first started dating two years ago.  She is so hot and cold;  what does it all mean?  I'm just a dumb guy. I told her that I know we have Chemistry between us, and she agreed there has always been Chemistry between us, so I don't get it.


If there is mutual love at any level; and she agrees there is.  She loves me me very deeply she says.  But if there is love and mutual attraction physically, and she agrees there is, then what the %$#@%% is this mixed messages all about?  If there is no other man in her life and there isn't, then why can't she commit to me in the smallest way since November?


I just don't get it.  She loves me.  Romances me (whether she admits it or not), doesn't have another guy, but says we are only friends.  Is she afraid of her feeelings?Just what the bleep is going on?  I need help!!!!!!!!

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5 years ago  ::  Mar 04, 2009 - 1:56PM #26
Dah
Posts: 100

It seems to me if you love her, you want to hear the best....


So lets pretend that everything she has told you is the truth as she understands it..


I'll assume you've never been in a relationship where your partner beat you? Where you partner got frustrated with you, and used your actions as justification for beating the hell out of you? While telling you that she loved you? While you felt trapped, and unable to exit the relationship? Where you felt that on one level your partners reasons were valid?


That kind of relationship changes a person, changes how they think and how they feel. Your partner is scared of you, and her. Scared in a way I believe you just don't have the life experiences to understand. Your relationship has hit a wall. It's not going any farther, unless you are willing to change. I've said this before you need a counselor that understands abuse and healing relationships.


Your partner is being honest and realistic with you. I am sorry I do not believe you really understand her, or perhaps yourself. I think she may have given you a test and you flunked it. I hear a claim that "you love her and sex doesn't really matter to you" So the test was you're just friends ~ how long will you wait before seeking another, how deep is your love, how great is your lust? Perhaps you've heard that when you end a marriage to need to spend sometime alone healing? Many people see a willingness to find another mate right after breaking up as proof that they were not loved after all.


You need to understand that your friend was in a very controlling relationship, she learn to control and manipulate. She is into control and manipulation, these are part of her coping skills! What she will need to overcome, they are natural to her now. She does it without even being aware of it.


All that you call "loving" was used to control you and manipulate you.. What was the purpose of it? I don't know I was not there. Perhaps it was to validate her, to let her know you are still interested in her. She has major issues with commitment, what is more important that she is in your life, or that she acknowledges that she loves you? If you want to take this relationship farther you need to invest in a trained counselor, you are not going to get the kind of help you need on the Internet. You'll get those who believe you need to drop her, and those that will enable her. Nether is an option I hear you want. She has learn a way of coping, and it will be very hard to learn another way and very scary, perhaps too scary for her. If you are unwilling to invest in counseling then pick up a copy of "he's just not that into you"



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5 years ago  ::  Mar 04, 2009 - 2:59PM #27
Cesmom
Posts: 4,640

I agree with everything that DAH is telling you.  She's using what she knows to get what she needs.  It's important for you to do something, like perhaps seeing a counselor, to enable you to truly understand where she is coming from. 


In addition to that, I think there needs to be some action on her part.  At some point, she needs to decide that she wants to invest her own time and energy into seeing a therapist who will help her deal with the long list of issues that her abusive relationship has left her with.  She won't be able to move on with anyone until she chooses to do that, and it's a decision, unfortunately, that only she can make.

Our need to learn should always outweigh our need to be right

It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.

More people would learn from their mistakes if they weren't so busy denying them.
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5 years ago  ::  Mar 04, 2009 - 4:03PM #28
Dah
Posts: 100

I think it is important to understand that she is trapped somewhere between a terrified child and an adult in a foreign land trying to speak a language she does not really understand. She is scared, terrified of you in many ways and of herself. It took her a really long time to get where she is, she is not going to change this year or even next. She has got to be asking herself are you really going to be here for the long haul? Are you really committed to her, or do you just want something like everyone else she has known. People change!


There was a guy once that told her he loved her, that he loved her more than anyone else in the world. And she watch him change into monster. She was wrong about him, in her mind she has to be wondering if she is wrong about you as well. Change is scary! She already lives in fear, and you want her to change, you want to scare her more. And I believe you deny that you want her to change? She has learn how to shut up, how not to share her feelings. I'm willing to bet you have no concept of how much you represent fear to her. The more you connect to her the more fearful she becomes, each step forward you make, enables you to become more fearful more terrifying to her in her mind.


You can not connect with her, without creating fear in her, with out scaring her. Each new connection is simply more reason to fear you. At some point soon her fear is likely to win out, she is likely to switch and seek to validate the fear she knows all to well. She will focus on the negative, and drive you away. She will abuse you emotionally and not even be aware of it! She will never acknowledge it, but she will do it. She knows far more than you do about manipulation, she knows how to play the game and survive.


 


 

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5 years ago  ::  Mar 04, 2009 - 4:24PM #29
rickyvilleza
Posts: 81

thank you cesmom and DAH for your help.


I believe you are right, she is manipulating me subconciously.  It started several months ago when she stopped saying anything nice about me, yet kept loving me physically.  Totally inconsistent.  She cannot say anything nice about me hardly.  For our first 15 months, she was very sweet and sent me tender, loving messages, but in middle of August, everything stopped.  That game of dispensing physical love, but denying any feeleings of love have gone back and forth many times during shorter interludes in our relationship, and now for 7 months.


Now when I try to say anything romantic or call her 'cutie' (my endearment term), she sometimes even gets mad.  Yet the physical love keeps going.


Ive suspected that since that mid August, something changed in her and almost became mean.  I suspected I'm being manipulated and that she's using her lack of commitment and lack of verbal tenderness to deny and punish me.  For what?  That's the part I can't figure out.  That's what would take a councelor.  She claims that I'm such a good man and exceptional, so is she punishing me for me, or is she punishing me for the subconcious anger that's built up inside of her and I'm just the available punching bag?  Because she knows that I'm madly in love with her and she can use me?


The problem is, she will never, ever go to couples counceling.  First becasue she is major denial about her feelings, and second too proud.  She denies she loves me as a man, only as a friend, so why should friends go to counciling? 


Maybe I sould go to couceling by myself over this issue?


 

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5 years ago  ::  Mar 04, 2009 - 4:43PM #30
rickyvilleza
Posts: 81

Dah, you say she is terrified of me.  Please for hecks sake tell me what is she terrified of.


I know she is not terrified of me physicallybecause she is the only male she will stay with overnight.   Is she terrified of her feelings toward me?


Is she terrified of me leaving her?  (she has asked me many times "why do you bother with me?" or "when you dump me....".)


Is she terrified that I actually will get physical even after 23 months and I'm the only man she will be alone with?


Please explain or at least expand on your thesis that she is terrified of herself and me?

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