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Switch to Forum Live View Women making the First Move
6 years ago  ::  Sep 02, 2008 - 2:25PM #31
appy20
Posts: 10,165
Serotonin is the chemical that enables people to recover from rejection.  Testosterone increases serotonin production.  The famed male ego is fueled by testosterone which in turn increases serotonin production.   Women have more depression than men because they begin, especially at puberty, with a lesser amount of serotonin.  Negative life events spur a kindling effect in the brain that reduces resilience and thus makes recovery from future rejection more difficult.  Of course, these levels will vary with individuals with some men unfortunate to be born with too little resilience.  In the average healthy man and the average healthy woman, there is a discrepancy in the serotonergic system due to the disparity in testosterone. 

The brain with the best serotonergic system weathers rejection the best.   Most of the time that is men or a woman with an unusually high level of testosterone production or prenatal exposure.
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6 years ago  ::  Sep 02, 2008 - 2:37PM #32
DesertKat
Posts: 436
Do women have more depression then men or are women merely more likely to seek help?  Further, men have higher suicide rates, which would indicate a pretty severe rate of depression amoung men.
Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfils the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things.
Winston Churchill
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6 years ago  ::  Sep 02, 2008 - 4:30PM #33
appy20
Posts: 10,165
Suicide rate is not an indication of the severity of depression.  Suicide rate also has another component, impulsivity.  Severe depression paralyzes to the point where the lethargy prevents a person from doing ANYTHING, including suicide.  In fact, some people do not commit suicide until they actually get better.  That is what happens with teens and anti-depressants.  They get better enought to begin to move again but they aren't better in mood yet.  Teen brains have more impulse control issues so suicide is more likely to be attempted.  Same with men. Men have different levels of impulse issues which is why insurance rates for males is different from females.  Accidents in general are lower for women due to biologically predetermined impulse controls.  Men take more risks which increases their odds for failure.  Depression in men and women are different but it is more prevalent in women because testosterone does affect serotonin levels. 

A person who commits suicide may or may not be more depressed than one who does not.  They simply may react differently to the depression or they may have more gumption.  it takes energy to kill oneself.  In severe depression, there is no energy.  So, in the most severe depression, suicide is not possible.  That doesn't mean suicide is not more catastrophic and horrible but suicide is no indication of the severity of depression.

Men are neurologically programmed to be risk takers.  They are biologically designed for that. 

The male ego is not a myth. It is very real.  Testosterone enhances self-esteem.  Women with higher levels of testosterone are more likely to be aggressive.  Some men do have less  testosterone than others.  They are not the majority though.  They do have a harder time being assertive.  Most men do not.  If you watch a group of little boys play and a bunch of littel girls play.  Aggressiveness is more common in the boys.  Men were designed to take risks and withstand conflict (usually physical).

Doesn't mean women aren't completely devoid of assertiveness but pursuing men is a waste of time and unless they are consistently successful, it will eventually erode their self-esteem.  It does men too.  However, it just takes longer with the average man.
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6 years ago  ::  Sep 02, 2008 - 8:03PM #34
mytmouse57
Posts: 9,782
I think I can echo much of what has already been said here. Women might not make the "first move" in terms of the actually asking out/asking for the phone number -- or whatever -- but they have ways of making it abundantly clear that they're interested. And usually they are the first to initiate that sort of behavior -- at least in my experience. So, when it comes down to it, women ARE making the first move most of the time. They're just not making the first "overt" move. And as I've gotten older, more experienced, more attentive to details and tons more confident than I was as a teen or younger man, I've gotten pretty good at reading those signals. It's usually a combination of looks, dropped hints, body language, a certain way of smiling.. and so on.

With the last couple of girlfriends I had, I already pretty much knew what the answer was going to be before I asked. They sent out the signals, and I responded.
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6 years ago  ::  Sep 19, 2008 - 10:12PM #35
appy20
Posts: 10,165
One thing that occurred to me recently and it made me think of this thread. IME, men are never flattered  when women they are not attracted to are attracted to them.  They get angry and insulted.  I know this because it has happened to me inadvertently.  Not too long  ago, the owner of a coffee shop that I adored got  it into his head that I was  going into his  shop for more than the coffee.  That was not true. I had no interest  in him at all. I did love his shop and his coffee. Now, I am Southern and in real life I tend to be very friendly.  With everyone.  I had that engraved into me during childhood.  I talk to people in grocery lines.  That is just me. 

Anyway, the guy confronted me one day.  He was furious at me because he thought I was attracted to him rather than the coffee. I was flabbergasted.  Stunned actually. I did not see this coming nor did (or do) I have any interest in him. He is so not my type because he is athletic (but not one that most people would consider physically attractive.  Jocks are never attractive to me.).  He was actually MAD at me because he thought I MIGHT be attracted to him.  Needless to say, I have never returned to his shop. 

The thing is that has happened to me before.  I have made guys mad because I was friendly.  Friendly with NO intention of flirting.  Men do not like it when unattractive women "show" interest in them.  Even when the interest is only in their own mind.

If a guy that I am not interested in respectfully approaches me, it does not make me mad.  If a guy pesters me to death and that has rarely happened, it is annoying.  I don't approach guys I am attracted to because I firmly believe that if they were attracted, they would approach me.  Indeed, the few guys that have been attracted to me, did approach me. 

Sometimes men baffle me.
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6 years ago  ::  Sep 19, 2008 - 10:12PM #36
appy20
Posts: 10,165
One thing that occurred to me recently and it made me think of this thread. IME, men are never flattered  when women they are not attracted to are attracted to them.  They get angry and insulted.  I know this because it has happened to me inadvertently.  Not too long  ago, the owner of a coffee shop that I adored got  it into his head that I was  going into his  shop for more than the coffee.  That was not true. I had no interest  in him at all. I did love his shop and his coffee. Now, I am Southern and in real life I tend to be very friendly.  With everyone.  I had that engraved into me during childhood.  I talk to people in grocery lines.  That is just me. 

Anyway, the guy confronted me one day.  He was furious at me because he thought I was attracted to him rather than the coffee. I was flabbergasted.  Stunned actually. I did not see this coming nor did (or do) I have any interest in him. He is so not my type because he is athletic (but not one that most people would consider physically attractive.  Jocks are never attractive to me.).  He was actually MAD at me because he thought I MIGHT be attracted to him.  Needless to say, I have never returned to his shop. 

The thing is that has happened to me before.  I have made guys mad because I was friendly.  Friendly with NO intention of flirting.  Men do not like it when unattractive women "show" interest in them.  Even when the interest is only in their own mind.

If a guy that I am not interested in respectfully approaches me, it does not make me mad.  If a guy pesters me to death and that has rarely happened, it is annoying.  I don't approach guys I am attracted to because I firmly believe that if they were attracted, they would approach me.  Indeed, the few guys that have been attracted to me, did approach me. 

Sometimes men baffle me.
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6 years ago  ::  Sep 20, 2008 - 7:15PM #37
koala972
Posts: 863
I like the idea of women showing interest although I don't really expect it.  Despite that it happened a couple of times, but they always choose to do it when i'm unavailable go figure...  But I don't approach women even when the signs seem obvious because quite simply even when things have seemed obvious there has been a turnaround where I'm told my senses are off, I'm told I don't know what I'm seeing, and I get rejected...  now I don't know if that is for real or if it just one of the games that is being played to see how interested I really am but I don't really like it so I just won't go there.  If I'm going to be told that what seems real isn't, well maybe I'm just skewed or maybe like I think sometimes it is a game being played, but I don't really care, that is the end of it for me.
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6 years ago  ::  Sep 21, 2008 - 2:07PM #38
Lynn@spiritoflove
Posts: 1
[QUOTE=DFireheart;709413]Here’s a question that I’ve wondered about for years, and it came up again over beers with a couple of male friends the other night.

A lot of societal mores have changed under the impact of the women’s movement over the last couple of decades or so.  I supported the feminist movement from the start and feel the changes have benefited our whole society.  But one thing that I thought would also change back in the 70’s has only changed a bit. 

Why is it that 99% of the time a man has to make the first significant move if he’s interested in a woman?  Even if she obviously likes him?  Although it is a bit more common, it’s still fairly rare for a woman to ask a guy out on a first date or otherwise initiate things.  Why is that?

With so many other changes in society and the role of women, it seems strange that this has changed so little.[/QUOTE]
It did change for me our should I say us my husband of 6 years now is someone I picked up at a bar.
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6 years ago  ::  Sep 22, 2008 - 1:54AM #39
Hatman
Posts: 9,634

Lynn@spiritoflove wrote:

It did change for me our should I say us my husband of 6 years now is someone I picked up at a bar.



Was he heavy?:D

Warmest regards-

Hatman

"History records that the moneychangers have used every form of abuse, deceit, intrigue, and violent means possible to maintain their control over governments by controlling money and it's issuance."
-- James Madison(1751-1836), Father of the Constitution for the USA, 4th US President
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5 years ago  ::  Jan 11, 2009 - 10:26AM #40
clarendon
Posts: 1
[QUOTE=DFireheart;709688]I’ve thought of that. 

It’s about as close as I can come to a reason.  But I would have thought that humans had evolved beyond that. 

I’ve asked the question to female friends who are very liberated from stereotypes of a woman’s role, who are accomplished professionals, and almost to a one they tell me that, in principle they see nothing wrong with a woman being the "aggressor” but they feel uncomfortable doing it…and they can’t really say why.

There are a few exceptions to this, but they are exceptions.  They tend to be on the younger end of the scale, so maybe its partly a generational thing[/QUOTE]
I AM FROM THE CARIBBEAN AND i THINK ITS VERY INAPROPIATE FOR A WOMAN TO MAKE THE FIRST MOVE i find that women like that has no class or morals about themselves, in my culture men makes the first move what I notice in the United States is that majority of the women here they also lay down with the man on the very first day they date and have sex which is very low class in my culture they would be looked down on disgracefully a womans body is the temple of God she should keep it holy and too much babies here are having babies
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