[QUOTE=DFireheart;719216]Well, I suppose there are different ways of doing things and interactions can get complex.

There is a young woman I see regularly on the subway on the way to work.  She’s always friendly and asks what I’m going to do for the weekend or mentions neat local bars or restaurants. 

Today I showed her my new cell phone and she entered her phone number into my contacts and said, “Now if you’re having a drink or something and want to call me you can.”

Could this constitute making the first move?

I actually feel pretty good about it either way.[/QUOTE]

Yes, that was a first move.  And pretty slick at that.  Good on her.  Of course, she'd been hinting at it for ages and you were just too dense to do something about it.  ;)

I'm going to respond to a subject on some ealier posts because this is one of my biggest frustrations...

Men say they want a woman who is honest & doesn't expect or require you to read her mind.  But when you actually meet a woman like that, you don't truly value her honesty.  In fact, you act like everything she says is false despite that her words line up with her actions.  For a person like me it's especially frustrating & wasting energy.  I don't have the time or the energy to be subtle.  If something needs to be said I say it.  Yeah, I come off as a little insenstive at times, but at least you can trust what I say.

Here is just one example:  Ok, if you bring food up to work & I say 'no thanks' it's not because I don't value you as a person.  There is no deeper meaning to it.  You are not your donuts.  I refuse the food because I value my pants & I would like to continue to fit into them.  I don't know how many men have been really offended by this, despite the fact that they've witnessed me turning down food that women have offered me as well.

[QUOTE=DFireheart;719216]Well, I suppose there are different ways of doing things and interactions can get complex.

There is a young woman I see regularly on the subway on the way to work.  She’s always friendly and asks what I’m going to do for the weekend or mentions neat local bars or restaurants. 

Today I showed her my new cell phone and she entered her phone number into my contacts and said, “Now if you’re having a drink or something and want to call me you can.”

Could this constitute making the first move?

I actually feel pretty good about it either way.[/QUOTE]




The first, second and third move!  She might have also checked to see how many other female names were listed as contacts, wondering why you hadn't asked her out yet.

Honestly, I think men forget sometimes that women are more likely to drop subtle hints, because if they really like a guy (are not just attracted to them) they don't want to be perceived as sluts. You can thank Hugh Hefner and MTV for that. Also, depending on where they meet ( workplace vs. social setting) they don't want to be viewed as overly aggresssive or be the topic of watercooler gossip. Most women have to work very hard to advance professionally.

Keep in mind that women most always brandish a ring if they're wed....many men don't wear a wedding band, even if they are married. No woman wants an angry girlfriend/wife/soon to be ex- whatever harassing them.  So this too adds to some hesitation on the woman's part.

Women are just as nervous to ask someone out as men, but men by far miss many subtle clues.Sometimes men don't get it unless you literally say, "Hey, what are you doing Friday night?" And then sometimes, the shy lad  replys with, "I don't know, why?" 

Ask yourself this------if you asked a girl what she was doing on a Friday night, and she had to ask 'why you were asking', would you actualy think she was interested in you? Whether it be from shock, shyness or just plain not putting two and two together, nobody likes rejection. Most shocked interested men would quickly intercede with 'would you like to have dinner', but sadly, some do not. Then women have to go through the whole 'why isn't he attracted to me' paranoia over-analyzation before they work up enough courage to finally ask the guy out. Usually needlessly. Why, you ask? Because most men do make the first move.  THIS is why women are reluctant to make more than a few attempts to show their interest. Women usually make the first move when they are interested if men do not. The shy guy blows it for you men every time.

I don't mind asking a guy out. But geeez, men should realize a woman is making a choice of  being viewed as being 'easy' and and getting rejected when in actuality we probably really like the guy.  We have no idea why he hasn't asked us out yet. It goes both ways.

No woman gives a guy her phone number if she doesn't want him to call. And she even entered it in  your cell phone so you wouldn't misplace it? Congratulations, there should be no more doubt; sounds like she really likes you!


Relax, ask her out and have fun already!

Why iff the good lord in all of his wisdom decided that man must have a mate and what we have come to know as a woman  was his best shot ,why in the world did he make them out of spare parts? (Spare ribs yet.)

Had he contacted me i would of designed him a woman with two bottoms and no top and we would have done a heck of a lot more funning and a heck of a lot less fightind.

[QUOTE=appy20;734341]Asking men out is a waste of time.   The male brain is very picky about how a woman looks and he can determine in seconds whether he wants to go out with her. If he does, nothing will stop him.  If he doesn't, he won't.  If a man isn't asking a woman out, then he isn't interested.  Men move heaven and earth for women they are genuinely attracted to.  They are only reserved with the women that are meaningless to them.  Also, men do have better serotonergic systems than women do.  Men have brains that are more resilient to rejection.  That is just a biological fact.  So, why waste your neurological reslience on a guy who is basically so indifferent to you that he won't ask you out?  There is a profound difference between cowardice and prudence. 

Plus, I believe that men generally are less interested in commitment.  Dating indifferent men only increases your chance of spending time with most severe commitment phobes.[/QUOTE]

I can’t quite agree with this.  I think it draws on too many stereotypes that that really don’t hold up with real people.

While sometimes men, or women, know immediately that they really, really want to get together with a person they just met, other times it takes time and maybe something to grab their attention.  We all like to feel attractive.  One primary psychological element of self-esteem is our attractiveness to the opposite sex.  Being pursued by a member of the opposite sex is a bit of a natural high.  In fact, over the years I’ve met a few women who will flirt and otherwise try to engage guys that they have absolutely zero interest in a relationship or even going out beyond the most casual of meetings.  My guess is they do it because they like the attention.  It’s somehow validating, even if they have no real interest in the guy. 

I do know that there are a lot of shy guys out there.  In fact, the contrary to mythos, the sensitive romantic guy who would “move heaven and earth for a woman” that he was in a relationship with, is exactly the one who has trouble making that first move.