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Switch to Forum Live View Women making the First Move
6 years ago  ::  Aug 22, 2008 - 2:00PM #1
DFireheart
Posts: 70
Here’s a question that I’ve wondered about for years, and it came up again over beers with a couple of male friends the other night.

A lot of societal mores have changed under the impact of the women’s movement over the last couple of decades or so.  I supported the feminist movement from the start and feel the changes have benefited our whole society.  But one thing that I thought would also change back in the 70’s has only changed a bit. 

Why is it that 99% of the time a man has to make the first significant move if he’s interested in a woman?  Even if she obviously likes him?  Although it is a bit more common, it’s still fairly rare for a woman to ask a guy out on a first date or otherwise initiate things.  Why is that?

With so many other changes in society and the role of women, it seems strange that this has changed so little.
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6 years ago  ::  Aug 22, 2008 - 3:42PM #2
DFireheart
Posts: 70
[QUOTE=Tolerant Sis;709426]Because it's biological in origin.  Females own sex selection, however, males have to dance or fight or bring flowers so she can determine which of you she finds most attractive first.[/QUOTE]

I’ve thought of that. 

It’s about as close as I can come to a reason.  But I would have thought that humans had evolved beyond that. 

I’ve asked the question to female friends who are very liberated from stereotypes of a woman’s role, who are accomplished professionals, and almost to a one they tell me that, in principle they see nothing wrong with a woman being the "aggressor” but they feel uncomfortable doing it…and they can’t really say why.

There are a few exceptions to this, but they are exceptions.  They tend to be on the younger end of the scale, so maybe its partly a generational thing
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6 years ago  ::  Aug 22, 2008 - 3:54PM #3
Anesis
Posts: 1,542
I think we innately know that men are pursuers and conquerors, and women love to be pursued. And then starts the power struggle over who is really conquered....;)
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6 years ago  ::  Aug 22, 2008 - 4:43PM #4
Sailorlal79
Posts: 1,365
Look at romantic movies- 99% of the time, men are pursueing movies. This is romantic for women- we like to feel desired and pursued.
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6 years ago  ::  Aug 22, 2008 - 5:08PM #5
DFireheart
Posts: 70
[QUOTE=Sailorlal79;709884]Look at romantic movies- 99% of the time, men are pursueing movies. This is romantic for women- we like to feel desired and pursued.[/QUOTE]

Movies are like that because that’s been the prevailing cultural paradigm.

Speaking as a life-long practicing guy, I wouldn’t mind a bit if I met an attractive woman who asked me out to dinner, movie or theater, tried to seduce me etc.

I think I speak for a lot of guys when I say that women aren’t the only ones who enjoy that sort of thing.
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6 years ago  ::  Aug 22, 2008 - 6:55PM #6
Hatman
Posts: 9,634
Dfire-
Well, ime, women DO make the "first move" a LOT of the time---even MOST of the time---it's just that men are generally too oblivious to the "signals" or "cues" or "clues" until she becomes "obvious" or blatant, something that has always rubbed the majority of women the wrong way.

But if you plan to wait for a woman to ask you out, bring a library of books to read, and plenty of food to last ya!  *grin*

One of the posters around here---name escapes me for the moment---has a signature line, supposedly a quote of TImothy Leary's(I think) that says something to the effect of "Women who want to be the equal of men have set their sights too low."

So while in principle, I agree that women should be free to ask a man out, in practice, what often happens is that women are simply too chicken to take the risk of rejection.  I suspect they reason, "Well, men are tougher---they're USED to it," or whatever other justification they want to use to excuse their cowardice, then they complain about how they "can't find any quality men," etc.

Then, too, women who HAVE been too forward in asking out a man in the past risk being labeled "slut" or "easy," and all that comes with that categorization.

So face it; asking 'em out is YOUR job.  Besides, do you really want a woman to establish a pattern of dominance right from jump street?

I mean---some guys are completely happy with being submissive, but these are the exception, not the rule.

Warmest regards-

Hatman
"History records that the moneychangers have used every form of abuse, deceit, intrigue, and violent means possible to maintain their control over governments by controlling money and it's issuance."
-- James Madison(1751-1836), Father of the Constitution for the USA, 4th US President
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6 years ago  ::  Aug 25, 2008 - 12:00PM #7
Hipi75
Posts: 220
It's not the woman's fault... trust me.  The best way to get a man to leave me alone is to smile & ask him out.  Being the assertive 'I'll do it myself' type I've had no problem asking men out until recently... but NEVER has a man taken me up on it.  I've just given up.

Of course, when I treat a man like dirt & constantly push him away I can hardly get rid of him.  Can we say 'frustrating'?
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6 years ago  ::  Aug 25, 2008 - 1:23PM #8
DFireheart
Posts: 70
[QUOTE=Hatman;710293]Dfire-
Well, ime, women DO make the "first move" a LOT of the time---even MOST of the time---it's just that men are generally too oblivious to the "signals" or "cues" or "clues" until she becomes "obvious" or blatant, something that has always rubbed the majority of women the wrong way.

But if you plan to wait for a woman to ask you out, bring a library of books to read, and plenty of food to last ya!  *grin*

One of the posters around here---name escapes me for the moment---has a signature line, supposedly a quote of TImothy Leary's(I think) that says something to the effect of "Women who want to be the equal of men have set their sights too low."

So while in principle, I agree that women should be free to ask a man out, in practice, what often happens is that women are simply too chicken to take the risk of rejection.  I suspect they reason, "Well, men are tougher---they're USED to it," or whatever other justification they want to use to excuse their cowardice, then they complain about how they "can't find any quality men," etc.

Then, too, women who HAVE been too forward in asking out a man in the past risk being labeled "slut" or "easy," and all that comes with that categorization.

So face it; asking 'em out is YOUR job.  Besides, do you really want a woman to establish a pattern of dominance right from jump street?

I mean---some guys are completely happy with being submissive, but these are the exception, not the rule.

Warmest regards-

Hatman[/QUOTE]


I think that if more women would take the lead in asking out guys they would be surprised at how appreciated that would be.  I don't see it as dominance at all. After all, the asker has to take the risk of rejection, and the askee is in the controlling position of being able to accept or not.

I think the societal idea that sex is something that women have and men are trying to get is basically unhealthy, both for personal relationships and for society.
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6 years ago  ::  Aug 25, 2008 - 1:31PM #9
Sailorlal79
Posts: 1,365
I've asked out men a couple times, it has never been successful. Men seem to prefer to ask me out. My husband likes to be the "dominant" one as well.
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6 years ago  ::  Aug 25, 2008 - 7:15PM #10
DFireheart
Posts: 70
[QUOTE=Sailorlal79;713610]I've asked out men a couple times, it has never been successful. Men seem to prefer to ask me out. My husband likes to be the "dominant" one as well.[/QUOTE]

Sorry, but I have to ask at this point, isn't the whole idea of men being "dominant" in relationships sort of sexist?

It is 2008 after all, and most women wouldn't want men to assume  that domination was there due in any other area of life,  why is this the last bastion?

Also, in asking around people tell me the female first-movers (FFMs?) are more common on the west coast.  could there be a geographic or generational variable to this?  would I be more likely to be hit upon by an attractive woman at an Obama rally than at a McCain rally?


I guess I'm trying to figure out if this is really a deep biological hardwiring, or if, as I suspect,  its just cultural.
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