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6 years ago  ::  Mar 03, 2009 - 2:02PM #101
appy20
Posts: 10,165

Here is a basic artcile. It is by no means exhaustive.  Good grief, I could not begin to list all that I have read and I am just INTERESTED in the brain.  There are thousands of studies, reports, books, even entire journals about how the brain influences behavior and how the sexes are different from one another. If someone is interested in revisionist theory, there isn't anything that I can prove because the minds are closed.  There are differences between the genders and I cannot be the only one on BNET that actually believes that.


http://www.narth.com/docs/york.html

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6 years ago  ::  Mar 03, 2009 - 5:27PM #102
appy20
Posts: 10,165

"Actually-- speaking as a social scientist-- I can tell you that human behavior does not have a strong relationship to biology. "


Those are your words.  The brain affects behavior and the brain is biological.  A brain injury demonstrates a profound relationship between behavior and biology. I do prefer peer reviewed journals and if you go through Journal of Neuroscience back, I don't know how far, you can get an idea where I am coming from.  That is one of my favorite journals.  It is peer reviewed.  There are others as well.  One of these days I am going to set up a web site if I can figure out how to navigate the copyright laws on such a grand scale.  I also am fond of the Archives of General Psychiatry.  I also like the book Survival of the Prettiest and I have read many of the studies listed in the back of the book.  I have also read many others that report similar findings to some of the things quoted in that book.


However, it does not matter what articles I quote and I don't have them all at my fingertips,  you don't think there are any differences between men and women.   Furthermore, I am not sure which point you want proven.  If you don't believe in biology and behavior, nothing I quote will change your mind. 


Our worldviews are too far apart to converse.  I believe that men and women have different brains and those brains affect behavior--a lot.  I believe y chromosomes affect behavior.  You don't.  Nothing I can say will change your mind and nothing you say will change mine.  My psychiatrist believes that the brain is profoundly involved with behavior.  My first psychiatrist was a neurologist who believed it very strongly.  You may not but there are pleny of folks in the neurological field that believe the brain and behavior are intertwined.


I remember years ago flunking a  psychology paper in high school about the role of dopamine in schizophrenia.  My teacher claimed it was science fiction. I had put together a theory from a lot of other journals I had read at the time.  In her words, brain chemistry had no role in schizophrenia.  No one with any sense argues that today.  There is way too much being published these days about the role of the brain and behavior to just cavalierly ditch it because you don't like it.

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6 years ago  ::  Mar 03, 2009 - 6:52PM #103
appy20
Posts: 10,165

I have no idea about black/white crime rate nor do I care.  The reason is I don't believe that racial differences have significant biological differences.  Race is rather arbitrary being that all white/lighter races came from black.  There doesn't seem to be any genetic significance between the races.


There is a profound relationship between brain and behavior.    You stated that there was no substantial relationship between biology and behavior. 


One reason that I believe that biology is more profound is because no matter how much anything else changes, behavior does not change.  Yet, change brain chemisty, damage the brain, and voila--instant change.  Our culture, our media, education, etc. have changed dramatcially but male behavior doesn't really change that much.  We may enact laws limiting some aspects of behavior but those laws don't change the behavior. 


If biology were not important then rape laws would reduce rates of rape and there is no evidence that it does.  Marriage vows do not change infidelity rates. 



As long as we concentrate on "other"factors, nothing will ever change.  I argue that we should at least give biology a try.  That has never been done.  Every other type of change has been implemented but biology has not changed since early evolutionary period.  If we change it and still have the same, I will believe you.


The women's movement did not change the differences between male and female toddlers.


 

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6 years ago  ::  Mar 03, 2009 - 7:00PM #104
appy20
Posts: 10,165

Now, it is known that some brains with impulse issues do tend to gravitate towards some types of crime.  Years ago, PBS did a special in which the brains of infants in England were studied from birth.  The parents were not told what the researchers were studying.  They identified brains of psychopaths and brains of impulse control type criminas and from a neurological stanpoint, these brains are quite different.  Anyway, they predicted with 85%accuracy which infants would be career criminals and which ones would do a one-time impulse control issue type crime.  If you could change those brains, chances are, you could change behavior.


Read neurological journals EVERY month and watch the data over time.  It is fascinating stuff.  


We have avoided the issues of biology for so long that we will never know what biology can do.  Yet, no other sociological type treatment or change has made a significant difference in much of anything.  


Did you know there is a spot in the brain that enables you to love?  If that is surgically altered, that you will never love your wife again?  It is true.  Nothing else can do that with quite the same effectiveness.  No, don't ask me to back that up. I read it too many years ago but it did come from a good source at the time.


Biology is significant.  It has never been tried so don't call it limited when we haven't even begun to explore the ramifications.


 

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6 years ago  ::  Mar 04, 2009 - 9:21AM #105
appy20
Posts: 10,165

Of course I have heard of eugenics it is the argument that you politically correct types use to keep us in the dark ages.  Biological equality will never be achieved because the those who espouse tyranny of the politically correct don't want anyone asking questions much less finding answers.  The intellect is in a vise of fear.  It is like the Christian unviersities terrified of evolution.  Mental illness will never be cured because of resistance from those paralyzed by the fear of stereotyping.  Those errified of the concept of biological inequality don't stop the think that if you address the problem, it could be eradicated.  Better to pretend that biology does not matter and fund more bandaids that never change anything.  Afterall, if you keep the problems, you can keep a bunch ineffectual social scientists employed.  Social science without biology failed.  Marriages are not more successful. Infidelity has not gone down.  Child abuse has not changed.  Mental illness has not been cured.  Serious crime has not changed. The biology of rape has not changed.  Legal definitions of rape are questionable and you cannot go by conviction rates.



Those who live in mortal fear that we may find a "bad boy" gene in which to base mate selection on have no qualms about girls getting boob jobs for graduation. You would rather rail against the culture than the male brain that that culture has been created to appease.   Those of you terrified that a serial killer might be identified at birth don't seem to be as upset about scores of dead bodies washing up on river banks.  Afterall, we don't want to offend a serial killer now do we?  We don't dare label a disease even to treat it.  It is better to pretend it does not exist.  That way, we don't offend anyone.


Congratulations, ignorance has given us the world we have today.  You like your crime, well you get to keep it. The good news is that no one gets offended.   As long as you don't want to ask the tough questions that might precipitate a change, you get the lurid headlines.  The next time an 8 year old girl is bured alive, pat yourself on the back because afterall no one got offended. No one was stereotyped.  Not even the killer.   It is much more important that people not get offended than any crime victim saved. You don't stop to think that maybe a problem defined is a problem on its way to being elminated.  Yes, in the interim period, you do have folks labelled as a serial killer that we don't know what to do with. However, once defined, then you can look at the genetic splicing and neuron altering that needs to be done to fix it.  Yes, in the worng hands that is cary but then so is a knife.   Ultimately, the serial killer altered is just like the rest of us.  Alter the schizophrenic and they lose the disease.  Identify the philanderer and give women choices over who they want to father their children and maybe philandering would go down.  Change the biology that holds women back and insists that they be visual stimulation for men.  Feminism has not changed that one bit.


Biological equality could cure the bigot.  Shut him up for good by giving those he despises the biological tools to compete in a genuinely fair universe.


BTW, you are horribly behind in your reading.  Do you know how many feminists tried giving their little girls toy trucks and their sons dolls?  To no avail?  However, give a female fetus an extra shot of angrogens during gestation, you get a girl that likes those trucks.  However, you don't want to know that.   You would rather delude yourself into thinking that the child a blank slate.  You don't want knowledge.  You want ignorance that does not conflict with your political agenda.  You and Jerry Falwell have a lot in common.

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6 years ago  ::  Mar 04, 2009 - 9:43AM #106
Dah
Posts: 100

Mar 3, 2009 -- 8:57PM, Nightbreaker wrote:


Social factors can change behavior.  Have you heard of behavior analysis?  It is an entire field devoted to studying behavior, primarily through Skinner/Bandura type conditioning.  Last semester I read a very interesting (though non-academic) book called Fist, Stick, Knife, Gun by Geoffrey Canada.  In it, he basically explains how the young men in his neighborhood were socialized to be violent (his mother even encouraged him on one occasion) and the environment they grew up in very much affected their behavior, and how, upon leaving that environment, his behavior changed since he no longer had to act violent in order to survive.



Hmmm Spin? This person has a certain basic set of coping skills. Just as the author has a belief that he is promoting here. What if anything actually changed? I believe there is a biological concept of camouflage? Were one adapts to the society they are in to not be noticed? When in a violent society he does violence to not stand out, to not be noticed. When in a more peaceful society he avoids the violence to again not stand out not be notice. The willingness to do violence may well be the same. The biological drive to not be noticed to not stand out is still functioning, is still the same driving force.


There are people who have a need to enable. Who have a desire to remove responsibility for one's actions. Who wish to promote the concept we are no more than animals. That it is wrong to acknowledge we can make a choice.


My spouse can and will make me mad. I have a choice in how I respond. I can escalate, or I can attempt to deescalate the argument. If one of my learn copying skills is the use of violence I will not have a happy marriage. When my tongue forum the word "Bitch" I've made a choice, just as when I choose to form my hand into a fist and draw it back. At one time it was suggested that one was possessed, as a way of enabling. Now days we find other ways of enabling, of rationalizing, of accepting bad behavior.


 


 


 

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6 years ago  ::  Mar 04, 2009 - 10:39AM #107
appy20
Posts: 10,165

I do think social factors do affect violence.  However, so do biological.  Only the biological can be objectified without regard to race, income, etc.  Identify what is biological, change that and then work with what is left.  Behaviorism is way too primitive.  It does not take in account how the brain processes reward in the commssion of a crime.  Some folks get a rush.  Some folks become uncomfortable.  Easier to squelch that which is uncomfortable.  The reward system goes beyond electric shocks or food rewards.   You need to know the chain reaction of neurons firing and the chemicals involved.  You need to know what genes were involved.  What viruses and bacteria had affected those genes.  Fix the biology and the rest becomes easier. 


Enabling often masqerades as forgiveness.  If you forgive, you are enabling. 


But in the realm of biology blame does not cut it.  Enabling takes place when you stick your head in the sand and say abstinence is enough.  If you do not address the biology of desire and of impulse control, you may as well not attempt to worry about the problem. 


As maddening as I find some problems (pedophilia, for example), I don't think my anger should prevail.  A solution would be better.  Preferably BEFORE a victim is made.  However, we prefer to react rather than be proactive.  We would rather punish and feel self-righteous than change before the behavior takes place.  If done right, behavior changed prior to enactment could level a lot of playing fields.  The moral person is not the one born with all the genetic luck but the ones that make the choices that enable them to live without desires that thwart moral choice.It is better to know the biological philanderer up front and make an informed decision.  Do you want this mate or do you want to wait for a monogamous one?  do you want the blame for his biology? Knowledge IS power.


We can take what makes it unnatural for women to make the first move out of the genetic picture, if we choose.   We can actually change the rules rather than remask them.  Give women the choice as to whether they wish to be attracted to men.  In a world of 7 billion, we don't really need sex.  50% of all pregnancies are unplanned thus birth control is useless bandaid when it comes to world overpopulation.  Maybe men should be allowed to have their porn, prostitutes, strip clubs and women should be given biological freedom from desiring men.  Let men have their porn and let women have more dimension than sex object. 


Only biological equality can free women of being a sex object to men.  Give us choice.  Only biology can free us from the limitations of fertility.  Politics and economics have gone as far as it can for us.  The next leg of equality is biological equality.  If women choose....


 


 

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5 years ago  ::  Mar 06, 2009 - 2:33PM #108
appy20
Posts: 10,165

Oh, eventually, violence can be objectified by brain configuration.  We aren't THAT far from it now.  It has been successfully done in some limited cases.

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5 years ago  ::  Mar 06, 2009 - 4:27PM #109
appy20
Posts: 10,165

The culture only reflects what people want.  If the culture did not appeal to the masses, it would be replaced by something that did.  The culture has been blamed too long.  Make no mistake, I am not a fan of the culture but it is worshipped by the majority of folks.  The culture mimics and satisfies the male brain.  Most cultures, with a very small exception are patriarchal.


If you consider one single woman's experiences with the general public, online dating and friends who are married a long, long time, infidelity is neither new nor uncommon.  Also, if you add the number of prosperous houses of prostitituion that primarily service married men, you wouldn't think that cheating is not the norm.  It is the norm.  I don't think you can blame tv for it because it went on long before tv existed.


We will always have the world we have as long as we don't alter the biology that produces it.


 

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5 years ago  ::  Mar 31, 2009 - 3:39PM #110
shygirl39
Posts: 4

Aug 25, 2008 -- 12:00PM, Hipi75 wrote:

It's not the woman's fault... trust me. The best way to get a man to leave me alone is to smile & ask him out. Being the assertive 'I'll do it myself' type I've had no problem asking men out until recently... but NEVER has a man taken me up on it. I've just given up. Of course, when I treat a man like dirt & constantly push him away I can hardly get rid of him. Can we say 'frustrating'?


I totally agree with you.

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