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Switch to Forum Live View Poll: The 4 Letter Word- Porn
7 years ago  ::  Jan 09, 2008 - 4:22PM #1
NadyaJS
Posts: 124
I'm kind of embarrassed talking about this, but I think I could really use some opinions, especially from men.   I say especially from men because I could really use the balanced perspective.  I know there are plenty of women out there that have no issues with their significant others desire for visual variety, but I know there are also a lot of women that consider their men looking at porn cheating. 

I've been married for 5 years and I trust my husband and I really wanted to be one of those cool wives that wasn't threatened by it.  My husband said his little hobby had absolutely nothing to do with me and his love for me and attraction to me.  The thing is, he's not looking at naked women in their mid-thirties who are size 10 (12 on a bad day) like me (well, like me before August).  He's looking at young naked women who are size 0-2.  When I brought that to his attention he said he would be if there were any sites that had naked women my size.  Ya, that didn't help.  :)

I decided to just let him be and trust that it was just a guy thing I didn't understand but shouldn't take personally.   The compromise was that he basically had to hide all his goodies on his computer- basically to just not throw it in my face- the "ignorance is bliss" philosophy.  Well...  I innocently (I swear) stumbled accross some yesterday and holly hell did I have a fit.  (I might add that I'm pregnant with twins and currently look and feel like a beached whale).
He said that in his heart he didn't think he did anything wrong-  he didn't think he was a bad person and he didn't feel dirty about it- but he didn't want to cram his beliefs down my throat because he saw how badly it hurt me and nothing's worth that.   So...  my husband's a good guy.   I appreciated his gesture.  I'm struggling with it though because I wouldn't like him telling me what to do, I don't want to be a hypocriate.  Although I didn't ask him to get rid of it, I still feel like my fit is compromising his free will.   I really want to be ok with it.   I just don't know how to be ok with my husband's desire to look at hundreds of other naked women.  How do you not take that personally?  How do you not feel like you're not enough? 

So, I'm looking for opinions.  I know this is a sensitive topic for some people...  I'm not looking to start a flaming thread.  I just need some outside perspective.

Many thanks,

Nadya
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7 years ago  ::  Jan 09, 2008 - 4:38PM #2
KatherineOrthodixie
Posts: 3,689
Obviously can't help you with the guy pov, but a couple of things struck me when reading your post:
1. He certainly knows that you object to this, and that you were hurt by it.
2. Yet he continues to do it.
3. While you are pregnant with his child(ren).

Regardless of what one's beliefs are, doesn't this show a certain lack of (to be charitable) respect and consideration for your opinions, feelings & wishes?
“The Law of the Church is to give oneself to what is given not to seek one’s own.” Fr. Alexander Schmemann
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7 years ago  ::  Jan 09, 2008 - 4:45PM #3
PaulaEdwina
Posts: 1,720
I am one of those people who has no problem with men, my man, any man watching porn. It would make me a hypocrite since I like porn too- I read and write slash fic, I read romance novels, etc. I expect that human beings like porn.  And in general I'm not into demanding change from my partner - I think it makes for resentment and hard feelings on both sides. I try to accept people as they are or not at all.

Paula
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7 years ago  ::  Jan 09, 2008 - 5:18PM #4
Anesis
Posts: 1,543
I think this is a classic example of how things can really go wrong when there is a clash of values in a marriage, which is why, imho, God in the Bible suggested that we not be unequally yoked. I think this applies to far more than just religious beliefs; research suggests that the more alike your values are, the greater your marital satisfaction will be.

What I see in your post is also classic. Women think they need to bend to their man's wishes and let them continue to live as they want, doing what they want when they want and with whoever they want so as not to restrict their own free will and their rights, and men expect them to (bend to their wishes). Unfortunately, this is often not reciprocated, often again due to a clash in values (regarding male/female roles). You are not compromising his free will if you let him know how it makes you feel. And if he is not abusing his exercise of free will, he will use it to honor and respect you rather than to satisfy his own sexual appetite in his mind with other women.

I believe in reciprocation. As Katherine pointed out, he also needs to consider and respect how his actions affect you. If I love someone, and my actions offend them, I will do everything in my power to change my behavior to accommodate them, and hope that they have enough respect for me that they would do the same. That is what relationships are about.

My X looked at porn, and I felt offended and hurt and deprived - like he was having an affair in his mind. I told him that I was unwilling to share my husband with images and thoughts of other women. My boundary was that he made love to me and me alone - even in his mind, since it is in the mind that the connection really happens. My X beat the tar out of me to "defend" his "right" to look at what he wants, but I contend that when you marry, your "rights" are no longer yours alone, as the two become one.

Imho.
An
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7 years ago  ::  Jan 09, 2008 - 5:31PM #5
NadyaJS
Posts: 124
I love all the replys I'm getting so far. Thanks so much for your input. Hopefully I'll get more opinions rolling in too.

I just wanted to pop in and make sure everyone knows that I'm certainly welcoming the female perspective too because we're not all the same either.

Thank you all SO MUCH for your reponses.

Nadya
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7 years ago  ::  Jan 09, 2008 - 5:34PM #6
PaulaEdwina
Posts: 1,720
I disagree, Anesis.  I do not believe that it is anyone bending to anyone's wishes, but more of an issue of accepting people the way they are.  I would find it as unreasonable to be told to change my ways as I would find it unreasonable to tell my partner to change.  With specific reference to pornography; I think we all fantasize, so I would think it an unnatural expectation to expect that my partner only fantasizes about me and only me.  My pet peeve is how some might construct distinctions between, for example, pornography and erotica. They serve the same purpose; they transport, they stimulate.  Whether I am fantasizing over a bodice ripper or another person is fantasizing over pornographic film, the outcome is the same.

I think it is more likely that if you make such a demand of a partner that he/she stop using fantasy facilitating tools (like porn) he or she will hide and lie. IMO the outcome then is not positive.

As one of my married friends says of her and her husband's philosophy; "I don't care where you get your appetite, as long as you eat at home."  Those are words to live by IMO.

Paula
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7 years ago  ::  Jan 09, 2008 - 5:47PM #7
Anesis
Posts: 1,543
Paula, no one is telling or demanding anyone to change. I think that if he cares about the consequences of his actions on his wife, he will WANT to quit, so that his wife will feel more secure and significant in the marriage. No one is telling anyone to do anything, and she has every right to tell her husband how his actions make her feel.
   
  By ignoring how you feel about someone else’s behavior, you are setting the relationship up for failure, as that is a breakdown of communication. But what is the point of sharing how you feel if you know that your partner is not going to consider or respect how you feel about it? Communication seems kind of pointless then, right? There is no one out there that we will ever accept 100% of all that makes them who they are. Imho, this is what the process of becoming one is about: working through the differences in a way that is conducive to the growth of the relationship.
   
  You are welcome to disagree, and to hold the view you do, but the OP has expressed a response similar to mine when I first caught my husband with pics of other naked women. People need to be able to identify their boundaries in marriage, and what is and is not crossing it. That seems to be what the OP is doing – finding where her boundary is, and how much she is willing to live with. I still say that communicating her feelings and his response to that will determine a lot of where the relationship is at.
   
  This is not a debate forum, and I will not debate whether porn should or should not be in a marriage. I was simply addressing the OP with my own opinion and experience.
   
  No offense intended.
  An
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7 years ago  ::  Jan 09, 2008 - 5:49PM #8
shiloh43
Posts: 423
Well  i do understand where you are coming from and hes picking a very bad time to be looking at skinny anorexic women to start off, I still cant see why a man would want bones to snuggle with when they can have soft cuddley meat, but yes, i do know where you are coming from and stop it now. Next thing you know he will be calling you names, of those women. been here and done that, except mine was looking at diferent sexes and races, and big and small women. until i blocked the site altogether and it can be done so thats what you need to try block all those sites and he wont be able to go to them and it will stop. i do think its disrespectful whether you are pregnant or not it still is. A size 10 -14 is normal and i plan to stay that way. At least my friend likes that. well at least a 10 anyway.
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7 years ago  ::  Jan 09, 2008 - 6:35PM #9
Hatman
Posts: 9,634
Nadya-
[QUOTE]he said he would be if there were any sites that had naked women my size.[/QUOTE]

Not true; there are quite a few sites for BBW(Big and Beautiful Women).  And I know that isn't helping.

Maybe if you looked at it like this:

Does reading a Romance novel arouse you?  If so, that's your porn.  That there are no pictures in it does not mean it's not pornographic; if it arouses you---whatever it is, that's WHAT it is---PORN.

Generally speaking, men are aroused more by what they see, and women by what they hear(reading, for most folk, translates to "hearing" in the brain).  Do you think your husband would have the right to be jealous over the swashbuckling pirate or the handsome rake in your romance novels, to blow up about it, make it into virtual cheating, and demand that you trash all your novels, never to read them again?

Besides, it's a bit late to claim this as a dealbreaker now; you've told him it was ok for him to look at other women now for over 5 years.  Not fair to change the rules midstream.

So, that's it from a male perspective.

Warmest regards-

Hatman
"History records that the moneychangers have used every form of abuse, deceit, intrigue, and violent means possible to maintain their control over governments by controlling money and it's issuance."
-- James Madison(1751-1836), Father of the Constitution for the USA, 4th US President
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7 years ago  ::  Jan 09, 2008 - 8:48PM #10
PaulaEdwina
Posts: 1,720
Paula, no one is telling or demanding anyone to change. I think that if he cares about the consequences of his actions on his wife, he will WANT to quit,

Sorry, from my POV that distinction is a big fat mind game. "Honey, I'm not telling you to change, but you should want to if you love me."

Not in my house.

By ignoring how you feel about someone else’s behavior, you are setting the relationship up for failure, as that is a breakdown of communication. But what is the point of sharing how you feel if you know that your partner is not going to consider or respect how you feel about it? Communication seems kind of pointless then, right? There is no one out there that we will ever accept 100% of all that makes them who they are. Imho, this is what the process of becoming one is about: working through the differences in a way that is conducive to the growth of the relationship.


Well I see you're assuming where I say 'accept' I mean 'endure' or 'ignore'. No, I mean accept. When you accept people the way they are, you're not enduring something. It's not a torment. If it's a torment you haven't really accepted them.  I think, contrary to your position, that acceptance is the key to relationship success.  We know what we like and dislike, and still we can continue to love and cherish each other. I am quite comfortable living without consensus.  No, I do not find communication in that case, pointless. Communication is not necessarily a prelude to 'honey do'.

Regarding 100% acceptance; I put it to you that it is one thing to ask someone to cap the toothpaste or close the lid on the toilet, and fully another to ask him to stop watching porn because you think it's unwholesome, or for him to ask you (me) to stop reading and writing slash fic because he has a problem with me getting stimulated by the concept of men having sex with men.

So I do disagree with your philosophy.
Paula
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