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6 years ago  ::  Jul 20, 2008 - 5:37PM #11
CHD
Posts: 16
[QUOTE=hopeforus;637512]Amen Brother CHD... I have been there also, and am thankful for your post, also to bob's. Your right, there really is only one comforting entity here. I think you know what it is, not always an easy path, but the right one. You also hang in there Bro, and like to also add you as a friend. I'm here if you need me, and I may need you as much. Maybe more, Life is not easy, but I do believe in strentgh in #'s. My Parayers are also with you, and I'm Blessed for your insight, and compassion.

                                                      humbly,
                                                          Hopeforus[/QUOTE]


Please add me as a friend, hopeforus.  We need to be prayer warriors and work through our problems and pain.
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6 years ago  ::  Jul 20, 2008 - 6:38PM #12
bob185
Posts: 125
CHD/hopefrus - It is hard looking at the future - I guess we do have to take it one day at a time -- i hate alcohol - wish it were never invented --Let's stay in touch guys - we all need each other - bob
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6 years ago  ::  Jul 20, 2008 - 9:11PM #13
hopeforus
Posts: 85
Amen Brothers... the alcohol is a bummer, and it can be overcome, trust me, but it takes time, and support, and I'm there for both of you, and everyone else. Your both added, and gratefully so. With friends and Faith, all things do work out for the good, I'm living proof of that. Love ya guys, (real men can say that), keep in touch, and  and God Bless you both, you are in my Prayers and thoughts...

humbly,
       Bob
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6 years ago  ::  Jul 20, 2008 - 10:17PM #14
hopeforus
Posts: 85
Well i'm not one for tact, and always felt honesty is the best policy, it sure worked for me from others. I used to hate it when people replied with my words in "quotes", now see the wisdom in that. The one about, "why do I answer the phone", probably same reason I did, and also kept my 5 year old while she went to (who knows where?). I also fixed everything, and even moved her furniture into her new house when her boyfriend as "busy".

Suckers for love, at least I was, now realize I was only hurting me, not helping anybody. Shoot I even agreed to the divorce only because she promised me it was just to pacify her family whom payed for it. Well we learn from our mistakes, but Love is something stronger than any other addiction, at least in my humble mind. To summarize my rambling, sometimes we never see the forest for the trees, it is the same for spouses of abusers, or addicts, or whatever. The truth is (I think), we fail to see what we need to in our own shortcomings in ourselves, and are not comfortable with whatever, and have replaced it with an unhealthy dependence on something else or somebody. Please do not be offended by this... anybody, this is just about me. I have learned that it may be masked, and have happened over a long period of time, but sometimes people lose themselves in what they feel or think that they want. I wish I was eloquent as Hatman or others, but can only say it in my own words and hope the message gets across. I just feel if I was as comfortable with myself as I am now, a long time ago, I would sure have made a lot better choices in life, not so much in wives, but in the way or manner I acted, or reacted to others in my life. Okay I said honesty is the best policy, and spilling the beans is good for the soul, and that's my story and I'm sticking to it, and thanks for those whom helped me to realize one of lifes' very valuable lessons. I just hope it helps. God Bless

                                                                                                    Respectfully to All,
                                                                                                       Bob
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6 years ago  ::  Jul 20, 2008 - 10:17PM #15
hopeforus
Posts: 85
Well i'm not one for tact, and always felt honesty is the best policy, it sure worked for me from others. I used to hate it when people replied with my words in "quotes", now see the wisdom in that. The one about, "why do I answer the phone", probably same reason I did, and also kept my 5 year old while she went to (who knows where?). I also fixed everything, and even moved her furniture into her new house when her boyfriend as "busy".

Suckers for love, at least I was, now realize I was only hurting me, not helping anybody. Shoot I even agreed to the divorce only because she promised me it was just to pacify her family whom payed for it. Well we learn from our mistakes, but Love is something stronger than any other addiction, at least in my humble mind. To summarize my rambling, sometimes we never see the forest for the trees, it is the same for spouses of abusers, or addicts, or whatever. The truth is (I think), we fail to see what we need to in our own shortcomings in ourselves, and are not comfortable with whatever, and have replaced it with an unhealthy dependence on something else or somebody. Please do not be offended by this... anybody, this is just about me. I have learned that it may be masked, and have happened over a long period of time, but sometimes people lose themselves in what they feel or think that they want. I wish I was eloquent as Hatman or others, but can only say it in my own words and hope the message gets across. I just feel if I was as comfortable with myself as I am now, a long time ago, I would sure have made a lot better choices in life, not so much in wives, but in the way or manner I acted, or reacted to others in my life. Okay I said honesty is the best policy, and spilling the beans is good for the soul, and that's my story and I'm sticking to it, and thanks for those whom helped me to realize one of lifes' very valuable lessons. I just hope it helps. God Bless

                                                                                                    Respectfully to All,
                                                                                                       Bob
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6 years ago  ::  Jul 21, 2008 - 8:53AM #16
CHD
Posts: 16
[I agree with your post.  I believe my own insecurities made me codependent on her, which in turn made separation more painful.  When I look at it rationally, not emotionally, I can see that being married to her was a very painful and lonely experience, that we had nothing in common, little true communication, etc.  Yet, the emotions rule intellect in my mind, thus the intense pain.
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6 years ago  ::  Jul 21, 2008 - 2:36PM #17
Hatman
Posts: 9,634
I was blessed to give up alcohol Jan 17, 1994; it was a requirement before I could be baptized.

It was mighty hard, but God helped me, as well as my new christian family, to stay straight---that, and remembering the "loved the darkness more than the light" phrase that I did not want to be said of me, or that I was afraid to come to the light because my deeds were evil.

AA can help, but only if you want to BE helped, first.  Until you have reached the bottom, and can go no deeper, then it's tough to even WANT to turn things around, and looking up at how far away the light is from the depth of that hole can also be troubling and disheartening.

Reminds me of the story about a farmer who had a donkey fall into a well; it was an old donkey, and he decided that it would cost more to get the donkey out of the well than it would to just fill it in.

So the farmer began to shovel dirt into the well.  The donkey would shrug off the dirt and step up.  Eventually, he was out of the well---dirty and tired, but out.

I've observed that most folks are often like crabs in a bushel basket.  As long as you're content to stay where you're at, they'll leave you alone, but as soon as you try to climb out, they'll gang up on you to pull you back in, to keep you from freedom, to ensure that you stay just as trapped as themselves.

So even though the road ahead be long and difficult, shake off the crap and dirt other people dump on you, and continue to step up, no matter how dirty and tired you get.  Step up.  Keep your eyes on the Light, and the freedom to be found once you're out of that hole.  Step up, take courage, receive help, even if it FEELS like that help is just people dumping crap on you.

Warmest regards-

Hatman
"History records that the moneychangers have used every form of abuse, deceit, intrigue, and violent means possible to maintain their control over governments by controlling money and it's issuance."
-- James Madison(1751-1836), Father of the Constitution for the USA, 4th US President
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6 years ago  ::  Jul 21, 2008 - 3:41PM #18
bob185
Posts: 125
I was blessed to give up alcohol Jan 17, 1994; it was a requirement before I could be baptized.

It was mighty hard, but God helped me, as well as my new christian family, to stay straight---that, and remembering the "loved the darkness more than the light" phrase that I did not want to be said of me, or that I was afraid to come to the light because my deeds were evil.

AA can help, but only if you want to BE helped, first. Until you have reached the bottom, and can go no deeper, then it's tough to even WANT to turn things around, and looking up at how far away the light is from the depth of that hole can also be troubling and disheartening.

Reminds me of the story about a farmer who had a donkey fall into a well; it was an old donkey, and he decided that it would cost more to get the donkey out of the well than it would to just fill it in.

So the farmer began to shovel dirt into the well. The donkey would shrug off the dirt and step up. Eventually, he was out of the well---dirty and tired, but out.

I've observed that most folks are often like crabs in a bushel basket. As long as you're content to stay where you're at, they'll leave you alone, but as soon as you try to climb out, they'll gang up on you to pull you back in, to keep you from freedom, to ensure that you stay just as trapped as themselves.

So even though the road ahead be long and difficult, shake off the crap and dirt other people dump on you, and continue to step up, no matter how dirty and tired you get. Step up. Keep your eyes on the Light, and the freedom to be found once you're out of that hole. Step up, take courage, receive help, even if it FEELS like that help is just people dumping crap on you.

Hatman - Been talking to CHD and Hopeforus - Your donkey story is exactly how I feel now  - including what you said before
I knew I had a problem and finally ok'd to get some help - went to a rehab for 2 weeks even though I had to eat a lot of humble pie and admit to my problem.  The FIRST day I was served with papers. I didn't stand a chance.  I signed over almost anything out of guilt and leave my home (I was never abusive - there but sometimes "not there") when I talk to her now she blames me for everything and is cold.  She is still in the house with the kids and like CHD, am living in a piece of @#$%.  I thought by pacifying her it would help things, but even though I admit my part she is moving forward and I am stuck in neutral while trying to stay sober, do AA and meet her demands.  I don't like going over the house to see my kid's as it is gut wrenching to walk in.  They are older now, yet I still miss seeing them everyday.  Sometimes I get feelings of absolute hoplessness and despair as I lost this 30 year relationship and feel completely lost.  Papers were served in September and I still don't feel any better.
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6 years ago  ::  Jul 21, 2008 - 4:10PM #19
Hatman
Posts: 9,634
Bob-
Many years ago, now---I was probably about 3 years away from beginning sobriety---my younger brother and I worked together on several construction jobs.

It seemed like the boss was always finding dirty, difficult, and downright dangerous jobs for us to do during a particular stretch, and I kept on saying "Well, THAT's gonna be a pain in the ass!"

After listening to me say this for about a week or so, my brother finally turned to me one day and said, "Every time you SAY a job's gonna be a pain in the ass, that makes YOU a pain in the ass for SAYING it's a pain in the ass!"

Even though he's my younger brother, and it took me awhile to admit to the wisdom of those words, I finally did; from that day to this, every time the first thought in my mind is "THAT's gonna be a pain in the ass," I change it immediately to "THIS job's going to be INTERESTING."

And that little attitude shift has made all the difference.

Told you that to tell you this:  Your mind is like a great ship, and it is steered by a small rudder.  Thoughts are rudders.  Change your thought-patterns, change your life. 

No one can think your thoughts but you; no one can choose what you will think about or for how long BUT you.

Feed your mind with more positive stuff; reflect on it, incorporate it if it fits.

For myself, I read the Bible every day.  I began by waking up, rolling over, and reading immediately upon awakening.  I started with a few particular Psalms(if you want to know which ones, let me know), but eventually moved to a ch. of the OT, a Psalm, a ch. of Proverbs, alternating ch.'s of a couple of the deuterocanonicals(Wisdom of Solomon and Book of Sirach)and a ch. of the NT before I began my day; while I was reading, I would also often ask questions in my heart about what I was reading, and many things were revealed to me, both positive and negative.   Reflecting upon what I read and what it truthfully meant to me, as well as being open to receive inspiration, were---I think---the keys to my continued knowledge of and desire for more liberty.  YMMV.

We choose daily what we will have, life or death, and what we allow our minds to dwell upon has a tendency to grow.  Concentrate your mind on problems or sorrows, and they grow; concentrate your mind on solutions and joys, and THEY grow.  Like the Proverb says, "Life and death are in the power of the tongue; those who love it will eat it's fruits."  To me, the foregoing means that those who love life will speak words of life into their lives, and therefore have more of the fruit of life; those who love death will speak words of death unto their lives, and so have more death.  Your choice.

Now, it's impossible not to have any problems; life's just like that.  It's like saying "Do NOT think of an elephant!"  Can't be done.  However---you can turn thoughts of killing and stripping that elephant of his ivory to thoughts of how to feed and care for that elephant, too.  Or choose not to think of the elephant at all, but the Radiant and Nurturing Light of the Beautiful Face of Our Father, too.  Your choice.

Warmest regards-

Hatman
"History records that the moneychangers have used every form of abuse, deceit, intrigue, and violent means possible to maintain their control over governments by controlling money and it's issuance."
-- James Madison(1751-1836), Father of the Constitution for the USA, 4th US President
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6 years ago  ::  Jul 21, 2008 - 8:42PM #20
soblessed3
Posts: 205
Dear one,
I am about to divorce my husband of eight years due to his drinking. It is something he has chosen over his family. I understand it is a sickness and at this point a medical nessesity. He is also depressed but that goes along with his drinking. Even when he stops he still has the alcoholic mentality because that's all he's ever known. He has to relearn how to live a sober and "normal" life. In time his body will get back to enjoy normal things.
Here is how I feel about my husband now:
I wish him a sober life, I wish him happiness and I wish someone would love him the way I did. He chiseled away at me. I was a mountain that he turned into a pile of sand. It can not be built back up. One day maybe we can be friends. I know there lies a good man in there but HE has to be the one to rediscover himself. I can't. I don't want to hear how he is the victim......he holds all the power in his hands. Too many lies, I need actions.
It is NOT too late for you to have a relationship with your children but YOU are the one that is going to have to go out of the way, not them. None of them owe you a thing.
It's hard for me to explain their posistion because it's totally different from being the alcoholic. The best way I can is to tell you that they had to grieve for you. In everyway you would grieve over a dead parent, they grieved for you. They had to let the dream of a family go, they had to come to terms you could not change and they could not cure it and they could not control it. You were no longer the man they fell in love with. You can BECOME that man again but it's going to take lots of time (they are worth it) Find your happiness, let them see you smile and enjoy things.
Educate yourself on how the real world works. Take parenting classes to catch up. Grow.......while you were drinking she was parenting alone. She grew up and you were left behind. Take charge, take responsibility, be a man. You only look like a fool if you don't try. A real man steps up to the plate admits he screwed up and changes it.
Don't tell them, just  do it.
I wish you the best. I hope you hear what I am telling you. God has never left you, your free will took over and now it's time to turn yourself back over to him. God Bless. I see strength through you from here ;)
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