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Switch to Forum Live View am i kidding myself?
7 years ago  ::  Dec 11, 2007 - 12:13PM #1
Feinics
Posts: 2,539
hiall ive been a lurker in this neck of the woods and see some good common sense advice
given here so I thought that was just what I needed so hope ya dont mind if I pop in with a question.

Im in a wierd relationship limbo at the moment. We've broken up but it doesnt feel like its over.
We are meeting up again soon to clear the air and have a chat.
We both love each other and there is still that spark between us but stresses got too much for both of us so he decided to end it. I know that our porblems arent impossible, we got lazy and by the time the stresses got too much we didnt have the tools to deal with it. 
The problem is he is terrible at verbalising his emotions and it takes him a long itme at times to even understand himself what hes feeling. He hasn't had relationship this serious or emotionally intimate (despite the fact are porblem was never really having a really honest serous discussion about our relationship.)  it was almost like he felt an arguement equaled breaking  up but by the time I realised this and understood our problems he had ended it.
I am not prepared to convince him that we should be together he needs to realise himself.
I dont wan to push him into anything I feel I deserve to be fought for to some extent.
He was thinking about us getting back together but without ever truly discussing our issues it seems a little futile and he deciding this in his head and not is heart.
It feels like he can be convinced, we dont act like ex's when we cross paths others say more like people who are just getting together. If he was anyone else Id say his loss and get over it but this relationship is special to me and to him if he didnt emotionally shut himself down.
So my question is should I bother presenting a case in some form for us being together when we meet up ?
Others have said if he doesnt realise what he has hes not worth it, ive been telling msyelf this but the truth is I do think hes worth it Im ridiculouly in love with him
and I know if I dont make the effort he emotionally cant.  I know he needs a nudge but I know logically  I cant be willing to be with someone who doesnt put in the equal effort.
Am I just kidding myself  ?
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7 years ago  ::  Dec 11, 2007 - 2:45PM #2
KatherineOrthodixie
Posts: 3,689
What about just saying to him what you said here - that you're willing to give it your best shot, but you need an equal commitment from him. Maybe counseling would help you both?
“The Law of the Church is to give oneself to what is given not to seek one’s own.” Fr. Alexander Schmemann
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7 years ago  ::  Dec 11, 2007 - 4:37PM #3
Hatman
Posts: 9,634
Feinics-
"I love you completely, now change!"

This is the title of a play that's going around, but the name seems apropos of the subject you're discussing.

You say multiple times that he's emotionally immature(according to you), and you want him back, but only on your terms, those terms being that he be able to open up more emotionally.  If he DOES this, will you respect him?  Personally, I have found that when a woman demands that I change some aspect of myself---whether that be physically or spiritually or emotionally---and I comply, she soon loses interest, as I am now no longer the one she originally was attracted to.

Believe it or not, men are all flawed creatures; generally speaking, why do women think it their job to perfect them?

Anyway, if you love him, you will stress the importance of discussing various issues, then name a few.  For example, expectations.  It's been my observation that most relationships fail because of unspoken expectations, in that what one has a picture of in their head is not the same picture in THEIR head.  What has helped me in such situations is definitions.

First, define for yourself, then ask him to define for you(maybe after a few days reflection) what some of the following words mean(or pick others you think of more importance):
Boy
Man
Husband
Girl
Woman
Wife
Boyfriend
Girlfriend
Healthy Relationship
Perfect relationship
Marriage.

Most people(I'd say "all", but there are probably some exceptions) have all these ideas in their heads about what those words mean TO THEM, and also, based on their own experiences and expectations, attach quite different meanings and understandings around these words; arguments and disappointments usually ensue when the other doesn't "measure up" to these pictures we have in our heads, these expectations that are unspoken yet important to us.

As someone who doesn't LIKE arguments and fights, and who wants to AVOID them like the plague they are, I find it incumbent upon ME to find OUT what the other believes and expects and has experienced, to see if I'm either willing to fit that pattern, can accept their expectations, or am inclined to reject them as incompatible with my personality.

YMMV.

Warmest regards-

Hatman
"History records that the moneychangers have used every form of abuse, deceit, intrigue, and violent means possible to maintain their control over governments by controlling money and it's issuance."
-- James Madison(1751-1836), Father of the Constitution for the USA, 4th US President
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7 years ago  ::  Dec 11, 2007 - 4:49PM #4
KatherineOrthodixie
Posts: 3,689
See arnie's cartoon on the "safety" thread. Funny, but also very very true. "Most" men would rather stick their head in a vise than talk about emotional issues.
“The Law of the Church is to give oneself to what is given not to seek one’s own.” Fr. Alexander Schmemann
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7 years ago  ::  Dec 11, 2007 - 5:22PM #5
DustyLady
Posts: 430
You said, "I dont wan to push him into anything I feel I deserve to be fought for to some extent. "

Do you see the contradiction here?  You say you don't want to push him into anything, but at the same time you are saying that if he doesn't change you don't want to be with him. 

I can't remember how many times I've heard a woman say, "I can change him," only to be disappointed because she can't.

Fall in love with the man he is, not the man you want him to be.  Because the man you want him to be probably doesn't exist.

Dusty
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7 years ago  ::  Dec 11, 2007 - 5:54PM #6
Feinics
Posts: 2,539
thanks for the feedback everyone.
To clarify I dont want him to much to change so much as how we deal with stresses in the relationship.  What attracted me too him was that he wasnt overly emotional but when the stresses got oo much he shut himself down. We never argued occasionally got a bit ratty with each other but we tend to deal with internally as opposed to with each other.  I honestly dont want to change him as a person but how we deal with issues in the relationship. He says himself that hes not good at expressing his emotions or getting in touch with them so this isnt something that Im generalising cos hes a "bloke". 

But a good point was made theyre we never found out what the other truly wanted from the relationship or expected, we were just were happy to be with each other and go with it.

When I said I felt to be faught for was that I feltI deserver to be with someone that appreciates me.In fact that I didnt get mad when he ditched me on my birthday or when he treated me like dirt  and has messed me about the last few weeks because I understand he was stressed and didnt do it intentionally thats just how he works.
I dont mind fighting for our relationship because of how much I love him ,  but he needs to want it to. Wanting our relationship to work I wouldnt classify as a character change.
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7 years ago  ::  Dec 11, 2007 - 6:37PM #7
DustyLady
Posts: 430

Feinics wrote:

.
I dont mind fighting for our relationship because of how much I love him , but he needs to want it to. Wanting our relationship to work I wouldnt classify as a character change.



I think this is the heart of the matter.  Marriage is a two-way street.  One person can't do all the work, at least not if the marriage is to be successful.

Question:  Is he happy with the status quo?  Does he feel there needs to be a change?

Dusty

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7 years ago  ::  Dec 11, 2007 - 6:37PM #8
DustyLady
Posts: 430

Feinics wrote:

.
I dont mind fighting for our relationship because of how much I love him , but he needs to want it to. Wanting our relationship to work I wouldnt classify as a character change.



I think this is the heart of the matter.  Marriage is a two-way street.  One person can't do all the work, at least not if the marriage is to be successful.

Question:  Is he happy with the status quo?  Does he feel there needs to be a change?

Dusty

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7 years ago  ::  Dec 12, 2007 - 1:29AM #9
SatanicStalker
Posts: 719
It's true, there is a difference between changing a person and changing how you and another person interact. There may be a tricky line to be watched, but so long as you pay attention to it, I think there is hope.

The fact that he told you that he has trouble understanding and sharing his feelings suggests that he might be amenable to the offer of help from you. I would suggest asking him if that is the case (however, don't assume. Even if it IS the case, but you two never talk about it, he still might feel like you're stepping on his toes). If it is, then great. It'll still be difficult and tiring actually working things through with him, but it'll be a step in the direction that it sounds like you want to go.

And if this is the case, and you do manage to figure some things out and set up some sort of outline of a system for dealing with stress and emotional trouble in the relationship, then at that point the two of you can start thinking about trying it again. And good luck to you.

But, if that's not what he wants, then you will have to accept that he's not willing to give what you need out of a relationship with him, and move on.

~Stalker
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7 years ago  ::  Dec 12, 2007 - 9:33AM #10
KatherineOrthodixie
Posts: 3,689
[QUOTE=Feinics;132396]thanks for the feedback everyone.
To clarify I dont want him to much to change so much as how we deal with stresses in the relationship.  What attracted me too him was that he wasnt overly emotional but when the stresses got oo much he shut himself down. We never argued occasionally got a bit ratty with each other but we tend to deal with internally as opposed to with each other.  I honestly dont want to change him as a person but how we deal with issues in the relationship. [/QUOTE]


Honey, you do want to change him. Changing how he responds to stresses is changing him, no two ways about it. Now the change may be for the better, who knows? But you certainly do want to change him and change one of the things that apparently attracted you in the beginning.
“The Law of the Church is to give oneself to what is given not to seek one’s own.” Fr. Alexander Schmemann
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