Hatman,
  I take ownership of the things I post and say and do, which is more than I can say for some others.
   
  Humility is when you consider yourself equal to everyone else – no less and no greater than everyone; all are equal. I have never once considered myself higher than anyone else here, and have indeed offered compliments that were taken as insults! I have also suggested that various approaches were not necessarily wrong, just that people need to know when and how to use them effectively.
   
  I have shown humility every time this same never-ending argument happens. I am ALWAYS the one to bring it to an end by biting my tongue and letting Arnie get in the last word. I avoid posting on the marriage and divorce boards unless I have something I think is valuable to say because I know he will do this very same thing every time. I admit my downfalls, including the fact that when people twist my words or attempt to use robotic tactics on me that I get completely p****d off and I let it come through my posts. I admit that I can get as snarky as anyone who is snarky to me first, although I rarely am the one who gets snarky without provocation. I’m not sure what further humility I can show without saying I’m wrong, which I won’t do. I’m not sure what he expects – bare my back and kiss his feet while he whips me? I apologize if I sound apathetic, but after three years of this same old argument, I really doubt any humility shown here is real or lasting.
   
  Another thing about humility is that Dah showed great humility by offering a kind and sincere compliment to Arnie, and yet Arnie continued to attack him – after a brief thanks. It was the perfect opportunity for Arnie to say thanks and then walk away from it, but instead, he chose to perpetuate the issue, which is typical of every one of these never ending arguments.
   
  Hatman, I just want it to be over. It would be, if he would simply take his focus off me and put it onto the OP. I mean, he would not even let a conversation happen between you and me about “tracking” methods. I was conversing with you about the merits and demerits of this approach, when he is the one who came on here twisting my words – and of course, I defend myself because he never twists my words to make me look like a decent person, but rather always twists them to make it look like I am stupid or mean. Now, he never had to butt his nose into OUR conversation at all. People can converse about tracking without him having to stick his nose into every single one. Except when it comes to me, of course because I believe he is out to deliberately discredit me at every opportunity.
  An

Humility is when you consider yourself equal to everyone else –
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I'm willing to learn. Are you referring to the dictionary or the Bible's description of humility?

____
I have shown humility every time this same never-ending argument happens. I am ALWAYS the one to bring it to an end by biting my tongue and letting Arnie get in the last word.
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So, does that make you greater than or equal to the other person?


I still see a lot of ability in this room to help others (even each other). I am a little concerned that a person that truly needs help would stumble onto this dialog and feel hopeless.

I would like to suggest that a private group be formed and that working and learning together would be a great benefit to everyone. How do you feel about that?

You all have pieces to the puzzle....

Cheers
HD

Dogs and Cats

That was good :)

Cheers
HD

desertsutra wrote:

My better judgment is clucking at me right now, knowing that I shouldn't say a word, but . . .

This is just so sad. It's hard to believe that anyone is on this board to tear others down, especially when many do come here just at their most vulnerable. From what I've read over the last few months, many voices, many styles, many opinions can STRENGTHEN the experience that posters have here.

I don't know if any of you have been a member of a church during a split, but believe me--it's agony. Like divorce, it's sometimes the only sanity-saving measure left, but to quarrel with those with whom you've shared more than one "Hallelujah" is very painful. The cool thing about b'net is that it's kind of like a church except that those who gather don't have to agree about doctrine, liturgy or whether or not guitars are appropriate on Sunday morning. Truly, this is a unique "community" in that it purports to be an interfaith meeting ground. We KNOW we're not going to agree, but we come here anyway, with our hurts and questions, our advice and humor. B'net has an opportunity to show the world that religious people can respectfully disagree with one another and continue to dialogue in spite of that disagreement. But imagine, for a minute, that you visit a new faith community and the day you show up, the leaders just happen to come to blows over . . . well, who cares what it's over?! Would you go back? Or would you try somewhere else? Or would that just confirm that all religious people are nutcases who can't get along . . . or--worse--hypocrites?

My bullying self-righteousness and general lack of patience with human nature are getting the best of me today, I'm afraid . . . But I just want to yell, "LET IT GO! Get back to the efforts of healing and helping, for heaven's sake!"

QT, I'll take a tall, frosty glass of that Peace Tea, thanks!

Hi Desertsutra,

AMEN to this Peach talk!!!....I just bought a book & need a little time to go thru it and will brew a big pot and chill it cold then it will be served to all soon...thank you for your patience..

I hope y'all like decaffeinated tea, since I don't think this thread can handle any more caffeins. That is my unconditional love (something I recently learned!;)) for y'all here.....I thought of all your interests/benefits ahead of mine....for the record, I love caffeins....can't function with it (unfortunately).....

Love
QT:)
here my hugs for An and Arnie

(((((((((((An))))))))))))___My arm and heart______(((((((((((Ar))))))))))))____________(((((((((((((((Others)))))))))))))))))

I think we're done and we are there too! (Remember that two movies?? are we there yet?? and are we done yet??? :) )

DAH,

Since you decided to continue the "Never ending debate Endless arguement" disguised as a tread addressing abuse, locked it, and then deleted a thread that was started by me on "spousal abuse" (that also addressed your opinion), I have posted it here, along with my reply,  where it belongs hoping that you would delete this thread also since it is also very counter productive.

Thank you
HD
_______________________





 

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#1 11-16-2007, 05:16 PM
DAH54
Level 8
Level 8 Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 757

This area of Beliefnet is not a support area. When you ask a question here, you can expect to get real feedback here, both positive and negative. The goal of this area is to permit you to see your relationship from another's point of view.

You will find post here that hurt.

Relationships are painful, and many of us rationalize our relationships in order to remain in them. We seek others who will enable us to remain in a hurtful relationship. The members that post here, have been in painful relationships, they have been hurt. Some of them are willing to honestly share with you their pain, their mistakes, and the things they see in your relationship that they see you ignoring. The "RED FLAGS" if you will. If you are trying to hold onto and imaginary or failing relationship that sharing can be seen and felt as hurtful. Simply because it may force you to look at and acknowledge your rationalizations. Please try to understand that some see more worth in you at the moment than perhaps you do. That some here are not simply here to hear what a great person they are, and to watch their post numbers rise.

Our relationships are very much about ourselves, what we do and what we fail to do. The choices we make and the choices we fail to make. You've put time and effort, and work into a relationship, and sometimes that makes one unwilling to think about walking away from a relationship. Or perhaps you have a religious conviction that you feel requires you to remain in a hurtful destructive relationship. That will get challenged here. This is a multifaith area and not all will share these beliefs. Sadly not all relationships are good, or healthy, or even safe. The percent of female murder victims, killed by an intimate parter has remained constant since 1978 at about 30% Around the world, at least one in every three women has been beaten, coerced into sex or otherwise abused during her lifetime. Nearly one-third of American women (31 percent) report being physically or sexually abused by a husband or boyfriend at some point in their lives, according to a 1998 Commonwealth Fund survey. Thirty percent of Americans say they know a woman who has been physically abused by her husband or boyfriend in the past year.

That will be reflected in what you hear here, form people interested in more than fluff, more than simply getting another pat on the back. The ones only interested in fluff will never hear from the 30% of murder women who their enabling words may have played some small part in enabling them to remain in the situation that led to their death. And sadly it is unlikely that they will hear from the more than half a million American women who are victims of nonfatal violence committed by an intimate partner each year. When you look at those numbers you need to realize that there are more than half a million people who have a belief that they have a right to abuse their partner or spouse. Who have a need to enable you to remain in an abusive situation., simply because by enabling you to remain, they are justifying their partner remaining.

There are lots of reasons why people post what they do here. And everyone posting sweet agreeable words that you find pleasing may not be doing it out of a love for you or even a care about you. Just as everyone posting words that you find hurtful might not be doing it out of a desire to hurt you. There are at least two sets of beliefs here. One claims that you can't change your partner that you are in an intimate relationship with. Think about what they are really saying, if you can't change your spouse, then there is no hope they are going to change you a stranger either. If their words are valid then their posts are meaningless in their own mind. If you can't change your partner, then their posts surly can't change you. Can't help you. They simply are not here to really offer helpful advice to you. That leaves being here for the glory, the pat on the backs, and the post counts and deception.
__________________
May you walk in peace
and know that you are loved

Blessings
dah

---------------------------------

There is a lot of truth in what is said above on abusive relationships. I think that most people that have been in that situation in the past, those that have not and would not consider being in a relationship of abuse would say to "get out now". Though there has been a few cases where the abuser has seen that he/she is wrong, admitted to the need to change and then with extensive therapy have effectively changed, most do not. They just carry their abusive behavour into the next relationship. If you are in a relationship like that it is fruitless to think that you can "change" your partner. It is also next to impossible to even "create the environment" to cause a desire within that person to change. It takes professional help, at the least, combined with the desire within the abuser to change. Anything else would most likely enable the behavour....

Professional help....... If I was in need of brain surgery I would want to interview a few surgeons to see what their opinion and methods were before I let them cut into my head. Any surgeon that told me that I should not seek the advice of others because I was the only one right, the other surgeons methods were wrong, I WOULD NOT TRUST (you don't have to be a brain surgeon to figure that out :) I would apply the same to getting advice in something as important as my marriage.

It appears that the above was posted with the underlying intent to tell people seeking help to not trust anyone that does not agree with the poster in the area of whether "you can change someone else". I see many people that come here hurting and seeking advice in their relationships. They have tried in many ways to "change" the other person with no effect. Perhaps these people should be allowed to decide for themselves whether what advice they obtain is 'Fluff" or if it is something that will work for them. Just like in surgery; all options should be explored before making a decision.


Blessings
HD