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7 years ago  ::  Nov 09, 2007 - 8:32PM #41
ArnieBeeGut
Posts: 1,407
To: no one in particular

DAH54 wrote:

You are not being asked to do something I refuse to do. I have repeatedly let your attacks slide, to no avail.  You where the one who brought me into this debate.

It was DAH's choice to enter the debate.

A debate you seek to create.

DAH is a mind-reader now!

You give me a choice of deleting your post, which calls attention to you in a negative way.

I wish DAH would explain to me what he means by this.  On the original thread, my name was mentioned by other posters first and my responses disparaged, when all I had done was address the OP.

Or ignoring your blatant disrespect which leads to other members leaving or being deleted.

I believe that this is a figment of DAH's imagination.  There has been no "blatant disrespect" by me - indeed, I am accused of being too validating of posters, thereby keeping them "stuck."  The OP on the first thread didn't leave because of what I wrote, but because of what DAH and Anesis wrote.  Check it out!

And you invited help in understand your actions, you invited comment on what you've done. I have attempted to give that comment that you have repeatedly asked for. And then get asked why am I talking to you.

Once again you brought me into this battle with your little snide remarks and implied insults. You had no needs to speak about me but you appear to want to disrupt things here.

The comment may have been a bit snide - but it was not addressed to anyone in particular.  If the shoe fits however...

Actually that is wrong as hosts we are suppose to be held to a higher standard than simply the RoC. Perhaps that is part of the problem here.

Perhaps by "higher standards" DAH means having a thin skin and criticizing me.

I did, you simply refused to see it, or acknowledge it.

It's hard to acknowledge something that isn't there.  Defending oneself is not a criticism.

It is a real shame that you refuse to do what you suggest. The truncating of post is a well know fact, but yet you find it necessary to imply that there is a possible other reason for it occurring here. What could be called a baseless accusation.

DAH doesn't seem to understand the difference between an implication and an accusation. 

The remark about "what would a shrink.." I will own up to as being a snarky innuendo.  If DAH wouldn't jump on me if I tried to address him, I would apologize directly to him for it.

Nor have I asked you to like or agree with me. I do expect you to start abiding by the host ethics. Removing your post doesn't stop it, doesn't solve the problem. It just enables more of the same. I desire to solve this issue, and move beyond the monthly disputes. If I have to force this issue to get it resolved so be it.

DAH can force away.  I would like nothing better than to get into an issue regarding "host ethics."

Your actions are in a state of disagreement with your words. You did not let things slide. You attacked me, on the original thread, long before I posted. Before I made any comment about you. And again after I posted, a post that in no way was directed to or at you.

I will own up to innuendos and snarkiness, but not attacks - and if DAH doesn't understand the difference between the two, then I would be happy to explain them.

You wish to invalidate Anesis's rape. Rape is a deeply personal experience, and writing a whole book (which I do not believe you have done) about it doesn't give you the understanding of actually experiencing it first hand. Your arrogance is showing.

This remark is so outrageous that it hardly deserves any comment.  Host ethics indeed!

Arnie

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7 years ago  ::  Nov 09, 2007 - 9:09PM #42
Anesis
Posts: 1,543
“Bbabs, I'm sorry you had to get sucked into this drama.”
   
  Bbabs didn’t get ‘sucked in’. She expressed her view, and I responded TO HER.
   
  “I have stated my conditions for it ending and also that I will continue to defend myself.”
   
  As I have stated mine, but you are just as unwilling to bend as I am. Unfortunately, YOU will never admit that you are in the wrong, and expect me to always be the one to bow down. Not this time. I am always the one who has the grace to bow out of an argument with you, and now I think it’s YOUR turn.
   
  “Hmmm....let's check and see who the OP on this thread is...why, it's me!”
   
  Now you are stating a blatant falsehood! It was Dah who moved your post from the other thread and started this thread with it. YOU did not start this thread. In fact, you even conceded to such when you said that naming this thread was NEVER something you would do.
   
  “Lessee here - an attack that is so subtle that only Anesis can see it.”
   
  Another falsehood. On one thread in the old boards, there was a whole thread where several people could see that you posted differently and more disrespectfully to me than to most other posters.
   
  “This is a rather absurd and baseless charge for which she has no evidence whatsoever.”
   
  Aside from all the other times when our super has had to step in. Twarnt my doin.
   
  “Isn't it ironic that she actually "twists" her own words! Yeah, WTF indeed!”
   
  Gee, Arnie, am I making you mad?
   
  “my first response was to defend the technique. Then she started to get personal.”
   
  A Freudian defense mechanism. I tend to get that way when my words are twisted by someone who only feigns understanding.
   
  “Being accused of deliberately "twisting words" is a personal attack.”
   
  I am well aware of that, and you are also well aware of the truth of my statement.
   
  “she wants to end it but is unwilling to change her criticisms as I have requested. It seems to me that is she is so motivated to have it end, then she might want to consider another approach.”
   
  Another falsehood. I have repeatedly said that if you stop twisting my words and using your ‘tracking’ whatevers on me, I will gladly ignore you. No problem. Why don’t YOU start taking some responsibility for your communication breakdowns. I have admitted my faults in this….I guess that makes me a bigger man than you.
   
  “
          Or ignoring your blatant disrespect which leads to other   members leaving or being deleted.
        I believe that this is a figment of DAH's imagination.”
   
  Uh, no. Arnie, I have left the divorce board AND the marriage board because of the unsafe atmosphere you create when you choose to deliberately take threads off topic in hot pursuit of making me look bad by the way you twist my words. You say the other guy left because of us? LOL!!! Now YOU are the mind-reader? I think they poor guy left for one of two reasons: one, you engaged in debate by twisting my words, thereby taking his thread off topic, or two, I (a woman, heaven forbid!) challenged him and it made him uncomfortable.
   
  Now, think, too, about the thread in which several other posts were removed because they also expressed the same dislike of the way you interact. It was a thread that was not started by you, me, Dah, but rather by another user who has most likely left because of the way you post. There were several posters (about 20 posts, two of which were mine) who have not seemed to come back for the very same reason, and they voiced their opinions before they left. Imagination? You have a good one to think that you are not offending people by the way you interact.
   
  “If DAH wouldn't jump on me if I tried to address him, I would apologize directly to him for it.”
   
  So why won’t you apologize to me? You know exactly what happened, and you know your part in it. Is it because I am a woman? Or perhaps because I am a bigger man than you?
   
  BTW, in post 31, it looks like you have taken my words and adopted them as your own. It is a quote from me, and you failed to use quotations or the quote box. Of course, that might be another one of your attempts at making yourself look good at my expense.



Are we done yet?
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7 years ago  ::  Nov 10, 2007 - 12:15AM #43
Hatman
Posts: 9,634
An-
There's a Proverb that reads, "He who meddles in a quarrel not his own is like one who takes a passing dog by the ears."

So, at the risk of having my ears torn off, then, I will say that I corresponded with Jaxx privately, and it was neither Arnie nor myself that made him decide that continuing to participate on that thread was no longer "safe" for him.

But don't take my word for it; go to his profile and ask him yourself via PM.

Please also note that I have deliberately refrained from interfering or commenting as regards this thread for 3 days.

But if I may introduce another perspective, let me ask all participants who consider themselves Christian here a question:

Is humility important for a Christian to practice?  If so, how do you define humility?  And as regards the qualities of character that demonstrate to all observers that one IS a disciple of Christ, where would humility fall on the scale of all desirable character traits?  High?  Low?

Warmest regards-

Hatman
"History records that the moneychangers have used every form of abuse, deceit, intrigue, and violent means possible to maintain their control over governments by controlling money and it's issuance."
-- James Madison(1751-1836), Father of the Constitution for the USA, 4th US President
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7 years ago  ::  Nov 10, 2007 - 1:54AM #44
ArnieBeeGut
Posts: 1,407
Dear Diary,

Anesis wrote:

Are we done yet?

Well, it might have been done if some more stuff hadn't been raised in her last post.
   

Anesis wrote:

Unfortunately, YOU will never admit that you are in the wrong, and expect me to always be the one to bow down.

I will admit to being wrong when I am shown to be wrong.
   

Anesis wrote:

    Aside from all the other times when our super has had to step in. Twarnt my doin.

When the ROC are violated, it is proper that they be removed.  I admit to having written posts in the past that have done so, and they have been deleted.  When it is the host of a board who is violating the ROC, what are the chances that one might get justice from that selfsame host?
   

Anesis wrote:

    Gee, Arnie, am I making you mad?

In her dreams.
   

Anesis wrote:

A Freudian defense mechanism. I tend to get that way when my words are twisted by someone who only feigns understanding.

See this is what makes it so much fun - a Freudian against a Rogerian (actually, I would say I'm more of a Jungian).
   

Anesis wrote:

    I am well aware of that, and you are also well aware of the truth of my statement.

At least she admits it was an attack.  I wonder how she knows what my intent was - did she read my mind?
   

Anesis wrote:

Another falsehood. I have repeatedly said that if you stop twisting my words and using your

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7 years ago  ::  Nov 10, 2007 - 7:20AM #45
Bbabs
Posts: 32
Everyones opinions and explanations are taken into consideration. Thank you...and have fun...

Hi QT...glad to see YOU back....

Peace
Bbabs
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7 years ago  ::  Nov 10, 2007 - 5:08PM #46
desertsutra
Posts: 26
My better judgment is clucking at me right now, knowing that I shouldn't say a word, but . . .

This is just so sad.  It's hard to believe that anyone is on this board to tear others down, especially when many do come here just at their most vulnerable.  From what I've read over the last few months, many voices, many styles, many opinions can STRENGTHEN the experience that posters have here. 

I don't know if any of you have been a member of a church during a split, but believe me--it's agony.  Like divorce, it's sometimes the only sanity-saving measure left, but to quarrel with those with whom you've shared more than one "Hallelujah" is very painful.  The cool thing about b'net is that it's kind of like a church except that those who gather don't have to agree about doctrine, liturgy or whether or not guitars are appropriate on Sunday morning.  Truly, this is a unique "community" in that it purports to be an interfaith meeting ground.  We KNOW we're not going to agree, but we come here anyway, with our hurts and questions, our advice and humor.  B'net has an opportunity to show the world that religious people can respectfully disagree with one another and continue to dialogue in spite of that disagreement.  But imagine, for a minute, that you visit a new faith community and the day you show up, the leaders just happen to come to blows over . . . well, who cares what it's over?!  Would you go back?  Or would you try somewhere else?  Or would that just confirm that all religious people are nutcases who can't get along . . . or--worse--hypocrites?

My bullying self-righteousness and general lack of patience with human nature are getting the best of me today, I'm afraid . . . But I just want to yell, "LET IT GO!  Get back to the efforts of healing and helping, for heaven's sake!"

QT, I'll take a tall, frosty glass of that Peace Tea, thanks!
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7 years ago  ::  Nov 10, 2007 - 5:22PM #47
DustyLady
Posts: 430

desertsutra wrote:

But I just want to yell, "LET IT GO! Get back to the efforts of healing and helping, for heaven's sake!"



Yeah, what she said!

Dusty

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7 years ago  ::  Nov 10, 2007 - 5:51PM #48
ArnieBeeGut
Posts: 1,407
Hatman,

"Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall have their ears torneth off."

I am grateful for your words of wisdom, and stand convicted and humbled.  I am guilty of the sin of placing my own  pride and ego above that of a brother  and sister in Christ. I confess my sin to all of you and ask forgiveness.

Hatman, Bbabs, desertsutra, DustyLady - blessings to all of you for being peacemakers.

Arnie
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7 years ago  ::  Nov 10, 2007 - 6:30PM #49
DustyLady
Posts: 430
A while back, I made a rule for myself as far as participation in on-line discussion groups.  (I do sometimes forget my own rule, but don't we all.)  I will usually state my views once, and possibly make a clarification once, if needed, and then step back and let others speak out -- unless a question or remark is addressed specifically to me.  I accept the fact that there are going to be those who disagree with me, sometimes quite vociferously.  But I'm not in this to have the last word.  And sometimes I actually learn from those with opposing viewpoints.

And something else I've learned over the years -- sometimes the best argument is to say nothing at all.    For a number of reasons.

Dusty
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7 years ago  ::  Nov 10, 2007 - 8:00PM #50
HDRomper
Posts: 242
Well now.....   I haven't looked at this thread before. Now I understand why I have bumped into dialog that I haven't found pleasant on another thread. Everyone is wearing their feelings on their sleeves :)

To an extent all of you have some really good points. Everyone seems to be intelligent and fully capable learning. Otherwise you would not have the vast amount of knowledge that you are currently displaying. The greatest challenge however is combining that knowledge and wisdom together in order to be of some help to people that are in great need.

Anyone here  think they have all the answers, at the right timing, for each individual person? Probably not......      with that in mind I would like to challenge everyone involved here to use this thread to combine your knowledge in a constructive manner  to develop some even more effective steps in communication.

For instance:

We all pretty much agree that "Validating" is a good way to start off to develop trust from the speaker that the person listening is actually listening. We also agree that "parroting" is annoying. So therefore validating should be only the essence of what was said. For instance:  My wife told me last night in several sentences how overwhelmed she was by the events of the day. My response was "it was way too much" Her answer was "exactly". Any more dialog than that would have been even more tiring for her and could have created a misunderstanding over a point (she was tired and grouchy). That worked for her and she understood that I heard what she said. The only step from there would be to help her with something that she was too tired to do.

I have watched validating being used at the beginning of a painful disclosure and it does repeatedly appear to start a level of trust that there is understanding. From that it seems easier to develop on going communication to the next level.

So from there, what should be next?

Cheers
HD
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