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3 years ago  ::  Mar 14, 2012 - 9:56PM #81
mountain_man
Posts: 40,536

Mar 14, 2012 -- 9:49PM, REteach wrote:

Will you please come and tell the mother of my Friday patient that I can't give him any more meds and she has got to get back into parent child interaction therapy? Or I am not giving her sufficient credence when she tells me he just needs to be drugged more? Yes I am disrespecting her because I think that she wants drugs to do the job or parenting that she does not want to do.


The poor kid. If you don't give the drugs she demands she'll just shop around until she finds someone that will.


Münchausen by proxy?

Dave - Just a Man in the Mountains.

I am a Humanist. I believe in a rational philosophy of life, informed by science, inspired by art, and motivated by a desire to do good for its own sake and not by an expectation of a reward or fear of punishment in an afterlife.
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3 years ago  ::  Mar 14, 2012 - 9:58PM #82
Mlyons619
Posts: 16,572

...No ... What I'm saying is that MANY Parents feel ambushed, undermined, insulted, and generally disrespected by "The Experts" ...



And there are advocacy groups for those parents who feel "..." etc., and so on, by the "experts" if only they will only make a few inquiries.


Of course, the reason WHY it is that SOME Parents feel ambushed, undermined, insulted, and generally disrespected by "The Experts" is because they come to school uninformed, ill-advised, arrogant, and generally disrespectful themselves with school staff...


(SOME but not ALL.  I'm pretty happy with 99.999% of the parents I work with)

 

"No freedom without education"
            --Thomas Jefferson

"NOBODY expects the Spanish Inquisition"
            -- Monty Python
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3 years ago  ::  Mar 14, 2012 - 10:18PM #83
teilhard
Posts: 52,164

Yup ...


There is PLENTY of mis-Communication and mis-under-Apprehension to go all around ... I agree ..


Mar 14, 2012 -- 9:58PM, Mlyons619 wrote:


...No ... What I'm saying is that MANY Parents feel ambushed, undermined, insulted, and generally disrespected by "The Experts" ...



And there are advocacy groups for those parents who feel "..." etc., and so on, by the "experts" if only they will only make a few inquiries.


Of course, the reason WHY it is that SOME Parents feel ambushed, undermined, insulted, and generally disrespected by "The Experts" is because they come to school uninformed, ill-advised, arrogant, and generally disrespectful themselves with school staff...


(SOME but not ALL.  I'm pretty happy with 99.999% of the parents I work with)

 





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3 years ago  ::  Mar 14, 2012 - 11:04PM #84
Mlyons619
Posts: 16,572

Mar 14, 2012 -- 9:53PM, teilhard wrote:


Who is telling you such nonsense ... ???


Mar 14, 2012 -- 9:49PM, REteach wrote:


Will you please come and tell the mother of my Friday patient that I can't give him any more meds and she has got to get back into parent child interaction therapy? Or I am not giving her sufficient credence when she tells me he just needs to be drugged more? Yes I am disrespecting her because I think that she wants drugs to do the job or parenting that she does not want to do. 








I believe it.  When I started teaching, I had a grandparent who was DEMANDING the school do that to her son - like we were some damned pharmacy.

"No freedom without education"
            --Thomas Jefferson

"NOBODY expects the Spanish Inquisition"
            -- Monty Python
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3 years ago  ::  Mar 14, 2012 - 11:14PM #85
teilhard
Posts: 52,164

EVERY Case is always aboutTHAT particular Case, isn't it ... ???  THAT Fact gets lost in the "Modern" Pressure-Pressure-Pressure to, "Take The Pills" ...


Mar 14, 2012 -- 11:04PM, Mlyons619 wrote:


Mar 14, 2012 -- 9:53PM, teilhard wrote:


Who is telling you such nonsense ... ???


Mar 14, 2012 -- 9:49PM, REteach wrote:


Will you please come and tell the mother of my Friday patient that I can't give him any more meds and she has got to get back into parent child interaction therapy? Or I am not giving her sufficient credence when she tells me he just needs to be drugged more? Yes I am disrespecting her because I think that she wants drugs to do the job or parenting that she does not want to do. 








I believe it.  When I started teaching, I had a grandparent who was DEMANDING the school do that to her son - like we were some damned pharmacy.





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3 years ago  ::  Mar 14, 2012 - 11:30PM #86
Mlyons619
Posts: 16,572

Teil


That's an EXCUSE.


Some parents do that.


I started teaching TEN YEARS AGO.  I haven't had a parent DEMAND their kids be medicated since.


I do not know of ONE case in recent years of where a kid was misdiagnosed.


I do not know of ONE case (except the "I-know-a-friend-who-told-me" cases that give NO specifics) where a school FORCED a parent to medicate their non-ADHD kid.


Now, you seem to being hammering this "Lets force the pills" rant (even tho you deny doing such a rant), but, except for the Canadian study, and your case (which seems to be a MD mistake and NOT a school mistake), and, of course, the  "I-know-a-friend-who-told-me" stories, I really don't see any basis for the rant.


MDs make mistake on other things too BTW, misdiagnosing cancer, or heart disease and the like, and yet those remain REAL diseases.  ADHD too gets misdiagnosed, but it is STILL a real condition with both brain scans and brain chemistry studies to prove it.

"No freedom without education"
            --Thomas Jefferson

"NOBODY expects the Spanish Inquisition"
            -- Monty Python
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3 years ago  ::  Mar 14, 2012 - 11:40PM #87
teilhard
Posts: 52,164

My own (adopted) Son was (mis)diagnosed as "ADHD" and medicated according ... Later on, another (mis)Guess was "bi-Polar," which he also wasn't then -- and isn't now ...


Like it or not, "Diagnosis" is NOT always quite so "Scientific" as some like to make it out to be ... So, MIS-Diagnoses DO happen more often than one likes to imagine ...


Mar 14, 2012 -- 11:30PM, Mlyons619 wrote:


Teil


That's an EXCUSE.


Some parents do that.


I started teaching TEN YEARS AGO.  I haven't had a parent DEMAND their kids be medicated since.


I do not know of ONE case in recent years of where a kid was misdiagnosed.


I do not know of ONE case (except the "I-know-a-friend-who-told-me" cases that give NO specifics) where a school FORCED a parent to medicate their non-ADHD kid.


Now, you seem to being hammering this "Lets force the pills" rant (even tho you deny doing such a rant), but, except for the Canadian study, and your case (which seems to be a MD mistake and NOT a school mistake), and, of course, the  "I-know-a-friend-who-told-me" stories, I really don't see any basis for the rant.


MDs make mistake on other things too BTW, misdiagnosing cancer, or heart disease and the like, and yet those remain REAL diseases.  ADHD too gets misdiagnosed, but it is STILL a real condition with both brain scans and brain chemistry studies to prove it.





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3 years ago  ::  Mar 15, 2012 - 3:53AM #88
Mlyons619
Posts: 16,572

Again, this is an issue with physicians and not schools, teil.


When I'm writing an IEP for a child with ADHD, while I want to know whether the child is under medication or not, I DO NOT TELL PARENTS TO MEDICATE THEIR ADHD CHILD.


Again, about half of the ADHD kids I teach are medicated, and the other half are not.  I do not teach the typically oral-type lessons of the general classroom, rather I teach using multi-sensory methodology, with lots of one-on-one and small groups, and losts of manipulatives, visual aids, and hands-on teaching.  Overall, the academic performance and the behavioral self-control of my ADHD kids on meds is significantly better than that of my non-medicated ADHD kids, which tells me that the kids were appropriately diagnosed and appropriately medicated. 


BTW it's easy to misdiagnose ADHD, especially in young kids, but to misdiagnose bi-polar disorder?  Come on!  You must've had a SERIOUSLY incompetent doc, seeing that bipolar disorder is a chemical and physiological condition of the brain.   Both conditions BTW are serious enough to warrant a second opinion to ensure a proper diagnosis is being made.

"No freedom without education"
            --Thomas Jefferson

"NOBODY expects the Spanish Inquisition"
            -- Monty Python
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3 years ago  ::  Mar 15, 2012 - 8:18AM #89
teilhard
Posts: 52,164

Yes ... Mis-Diagnoses DO happen, don't they ... ??? Not all Physicians ARE equally skilled and Clinically Experienced ...


Mar 15, 2012 -- 3:53AM, Mlyons619 wrote:


Again, this is an issue with physicians and not schools, teil.


When I'm writing an IEP for a child with ADHD, while I want to know whether the child is under medication or not, I DO NOT TELL PARENTS TO MEDICATE THEIR ADHD CHILD.


Again, about half of the ADHD kids I teach are medicated, and the other half are not.  I do not teach the typically oral-type lessons of the general classroom, rather I teach using multi-sensory methodology, with lots of one-on-one and small groups, and losts of manipulatives, visual aids, and hands-on teaching.  Overall, the academic performance and the behavioral self-control of my ADHD kids on meds is significantly better than that of my non-medicated ADHD kids, which tells me that the kids were appropriately diagnosed and appropriately medicated. 


BTW it's easy to misdiagnose ADHD, especially in young kids, but to misdiagnose bi-polar disorder?  Come on!  You must've had a SERIOUSLY incompetent doc, seeing that bipolar disorder is a chemical and physiological condition of the brain.   Both conditions BTW are serious enough to warrant a second opinion to ensure a proper diagnosis is being made.





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3 years ago  ::  Mar 15, 2012 - 1:27PM #90
REteach
Posts: 15,141

Mar 14, 2012 -- 9:56PM, mountain_man wrote:

Münchausen by proxy?


Probably mostly PPP (piss poor parenting) on top of real ADHD. However, telling her she needs to parent as well as give him meds is apparently construed as disrespecting her.

I know you believe you understand what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize what you heard was not what I meant...
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