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Switch to Forum Live View French fries and burgers are bad, but walnuts and yogurt are good
3 years ago  ::  Jun 26, 2011 - 11:49PM #31
solfeggio
Posts: 9,324

Jane and Irene -


Shame on you.  I had thought better of you than to see you agree with Dot's disingenuous nonsense.


I'm sorry to say that this has changed my opinion of you.


 

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3 years ago  ::  Jun 26, 2011 - 11:52PM #32
solfeggio
Posts: 9,324

arielg -


Thank you for your posts.  You do seem to be one of the few analytically deliberative people who post in these discussions.

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3 years ago  ::  Jun 27, 2011 - 1:31AM #33
jane2
Posts: 14,295

Jun 26, 2011 -- 11:49PM, solfeggio wrote:


Jane and Irene -


Shame on you.  I had thought better of you than to see you agree with Dot's disingenuous nonsense.


I'm sorry to say that this has changed my opinion of you.


 




Solf


I was raised on meat, potatoes and a veggie, but mainly beef in moderate portions. I'm in better health than I ought to be because of that diet. Of course, we never ate bangers and mash or fish and chips. Our meat is broiled or occasionally roasted. When my husband was alive he grilled our steak on a gas grill : normally we shared a NY strip steak because we liked it rare : very moderate portions for each of us.


Our children and now their children have been raised similarly. My grandchilden are a lot that many would be envious of : brilliant and thin.


Why not just accept that not all buy into your program? Most of us are not "pushing" anything. We're just enjoying our lives and making what we consider cogent decisions.




Moderated by Stardove on Jun 30, 2011 - 01:37AM
discuss catholicism
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3 years ago  ::  Jun 27, 2011 - 1:35AM #34
Roodog
Posts: 10,168

Jun 27, 2011 -- 1:31AM, jane2 wrote:


Jun 26, 2011 -- 11:49PM, solfeggio wrote:


Jane and Irene -


Shame on you.  I had thought better of you than to see you agree with Dot's disingenuous nonsense.


I'm sorry to say that this has changed my opinion of you.


 




Solf


I was raised on meat, potatoes and a veggie, but mainly beef in moderate portions. I'm in better health than I ought to be because of that diet. Of course, we never ate bangers and mash or fish and chips. Our meat is broiled or occasionally roasted. When my husband was alive he grilled our steak on a gas grill : normally we shared a NY strip steak because we liked it rare : very moderate portions for each of us.


Our children and now their children have been raised similarly. My grandchilden are a lot that many would be envious of : brilliant and thin.


Why not just accept that not all buy into your program? Most of us are not "pushing" anything. We're just enjoying our lives and making what we consider cogent decisions.








Jane


Too much of anything is bad for you.


The biggest culprit is starches, not just potatoes but grains of any type. 


That is why there is less grains in the new "My Plate" recommendations.

Moderated by Stardove on Jun 30, 2011 - 01:37AM
For those who have faith, no explanation is neccessary.
For those who have no faith, no explanation is possible.

St. Thomas Aquinas

If one turns his ear from hearing the Law, even his prayer is an abomination. Proverbs 28:9
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3 years ago  ::  Jun 27, 2011 - 1:43AM #35
arielg
Posts: 9,116

 


Solf



I was raised on meat, potatoes and a veggie, but mainly beef in moderate portions.


 


As in any subject, what Solfeggio says is directed at those who still have an open mind, who are still exploring and considering options.  Those who already have their minds made up, will only agree or disagree.

Moderated by Stardove on Jun 30, 2011 - 01:38AM
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3 years ago  ::  Jun 27, 2011 - 1:55AM #36
rabello
Posts: 21,637

Can't be just a rant.  The Harvard study just came out.  It was briefly discussed on one of the cable news shows, perhaps CNN, which is where I first heard of it.


What the study shows is that it's not just a matter of calorie intake and exercise that prevent weight gain and obesity, and helps explain why so many people have trouble losing weight even though they count their calories and "diet."   It shows that there are foods that actually cause people to gain weight, and other foods that have the opposite effect.   The study indicates that potatoes seem to be the worst culprit, which is surprising, but the Washington Post article from the OP say it has something to do with how potatoes affect insulin metabolism.


Very helpful information for those who struggle mightily to get their weight under control -- particularly the morbidly obese, and those with a family history of obesity, diabetes, and heart disease. 


What will be interesting is the potential political, economic and policy implications, as suggested in the WaPo article, which ends with this:



With no magic bullet weight-loss pills in sight, and study after study showing that dieting only helps a little, other researchers said the findings offer valuable clues to the only other option for fighting the obesity epidemic: preventing weight gain.


“What we now need are effective strategies and possibly public health policies to help people adopt lifestyle behaviors that will prevent them from becoming obese,” said Samuel Klein of the Washington University School of Medicine in St. Louis. “An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of fat when it comes to obesity.”



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3 years ago  ::  Jun 27, 2011 - 10:36AM #37
DotNotInOz
Posts: 6,833
I didn't say the Harvard study is a rant, but I'm also refraining from tallying how many studies have demonstrated something about nutrition only to have subsequent studies "prove" something else entirely.

What we may ultimately discover is that a person's diet must be calculated to support that individual's metabolism and tolerance for various foods. Until we can consider that vegetarianism isn't the best diet for everyone just as eating meat isn't, we're each simply spouting our personal pet theories here.

There's still a great deal about tailoring diet for various metabolic and medical needs that we simply don't yet know. In short, which is the best diet is a discussion as fruitless as which is the best religion. More than likely, there is no single best for everyone of either.
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3 years ago  ::  Jun 27, 2011 - 11:51AM #38
Ebon
Posts: 10,148

Jun 26, 2011 -- 11:45PM, solfeggio wrote:

You've got this idea that humans have been eating our present sort of diet for millions of years, but you are wrong.  Yes, humans have been eating animal flesh for the past seven million years or so, but those early humans weren't eating it every day, and the meats they were eating were nowhere near as fatty as people eat today.



And where did I say that the human diet had been unchanged for millions of years? I didn't, I never said that. What I have repeatedly called you out for is your repeated claims that humans are not natural omnivores. Whenever this subject comes up, you repeatedly misstate and overplay your evidence.


As well, those early humans were eating a lot more plant foods than people eat today. 



Granted. I've never disputed that we need to eat less meat.


Besides, what do we care what Australopithecus or Homo habilis ate, anyway?



If you do not care, then stop claiming that humans are natural vegans.


The point of this thread was to show, yet again in yet another study, that no matter how 'tasty' people think meat is, it isn't a healthy food.


And yes, being a strong animal rights advocate, I am of the firm belief that we humans do not have the right to exploit our fellow animals in any way.



And that's your belief and that's fine. No-one has criticised you for being vegan (that I remember anyway), you have been criticised for misrepresenting what the evidence actually says.


You want to call that a 'rant,' fine.  Go for it.



Actually, that was Dot, although I don't disagree.


  Most of you people posting are lost causes where the relationship between consumption of animal foods and health is concerned, but my hope is that somebody who is lurking but not posting will read what I've said and take it to heart.



And now you sound like an evangelist.

He who oppresses the poor shows contempt for their Maker, but whoever is kind to the needy honors God. ~ Proverbs 14:31

Fiat justitia, ruat caelum

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3 years ago  ::  Jun 27, 2011 - 11:54AM #39
rabello
Posts: 21,637

Jun 27, 2011 -- 10:36AM, DotNotInOz wrote:


I didn't say the Harvard study is a rant, but I'm also refraining from tallying how many studies have demonstrated something about nutrition only to have subsequent studies "prove" something else entirely.


What we may ultimately discover is that a person's diet must be calculated to support that individual's metabolism and tolerance for various foods. Until we can consider that vegetarianism isn't the best diet for everyone just as eating meat isn't, we're each simply spouting our personal pet theories here.


There's still a great deal about tailoring diet for various metabolic and medical needs that we simply don't yet know. In short, which is the best diet is a discussion as fruitless as which is the best religion. More than likely, there is no single best for everyone of either.





Oh, I don't know.  There were enough references in the OP to make the topic more than just somebody's pet theory.


I do doubt that there will ever be a scientfic study that will say burgers and fries are good for one's longterm health.  There are already too many studies that indicate the exact opposite.


I can agree that there are some people who do not need the information presented by this latest study, and I can understand that for such individuals, yet another study about foods people eat is tedious and tiresome.  Unfortunately, that doesn't characterize the majority of ordinary folks.  For those who do need information, I think the results of this study are more helpful than the superficial "My Plate" that also just came out, an image that is guaranteed not to bore or irritate anyone -- which of course is directly proportional to its uselessness.


I know women who, when "dieting", will certainly skip eating nuts (or avocados) because of the belief that these foods are high in fat, which they are, or skip eating yogurt because the conventional wisdom says that dairy products are high in calories....but at the same time, eat lots of potatoes because potatoes are vegetables, and the conventional wisdom says that vegetables are low in calories.  


While admitting that such information can be boring to those who don't need to watch their weight or their BMI, or who already know everything there is to know about nutrition and dieting, I would content that for those who are at risk of developing a myriad of obesity-related illness and who think counting calories is going to do the trick for them, the information provided by this study will be helpful to them in the choices they make.  What's so "bad" about that??

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3 years ago  ::  Jun 27, 2011 - 1:40PM #40
Erey
Posts: 18,942

I think a burger tweaked with say whole wheat bun or no bun and wrapped in lettuce leaves can be very healthful.  It is probably too high in calories to eat excessively or in large portions but your typicall burger with the lettuce, tomato, onion is not bad. 


A small potato baked can be healthful but french fries should probably not be consumed on a regular basis.  I have allways found french fries to be delicious but now I am able to be satisfied just after eating three or so fries.  Now potato chips are a problem, and I tend to over eat those. 


My personal approach to meat is to just try and eat less.  I don't believe in any hard core vegetarianism for me.  I do believe our dietary needs change as we go through life.  I can do with less meat but then my children seem to need more.  Since i am responsible for feeding them I tend to eat more meat.  Right now I just try to prepare enough meatless meals so the kids know that they can live meatless and that meatless meals can be tasty.  Naturally they prefer meat to tofu.  Although I tend to prefer tofu to meat. 


Alot of people become vegetarian as they age and enter a different stage of life. 

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