Apr 3, 2009 -- 3:36AM, AKwinters wrote:

The twelve steps and AA had absolutely nothing to do with how I got sober.

 I've never done a single step. But I do try to employ some of the psychology behind those steps, and I probably should more often..

the difference might just come down to whatever way you find works ...
you will take with you when you die.

In AA we pass it on.

Apr 6, 2009 -- 1:03AM, AKwinters wrote:

What works is not drinking.

Passing along the therapeutic techniques of AA is noble I agree.

My first venture with AA was like anyone else realizing the problem. But my problem was, I was one of "those" drinkers. Hardcore. When I went to the first few meetings, I was a mess in front of a lot of seemingly egotistical sober people who persisted in ignoring me. One after one people dissipated from the meeting, and I was all alone. So nothing was passed to me.

I had actually thought of joining AA once to acquire my own meeting. In my preamble I wouldn't change a single word, but I would add one sentence:

"Is there anyone in the room who would like a ride to a detox center after the meeting?"

If I had heard this during those first few years, I would be an AA now. Instead I was detoxed by a facility and I was sobered up at a church. Hence this thread, where I feel a little odd about having been sobered up in the presence of people who worship God, but realizing that only the worship is the God, because the God figure doesn't really exist, not that I can tell..

AA is a bizarre ebb and tide philosophy zone, and a great place for continued therapy, but AA does not work much for incoming hardcore alcoholics who need specialized attention.

AKW,

I resemble these remaks. I was about as hardcore an alcoholic as they come, but somehow it worked for me, and I'm not a theist by any stretch of the imagination. In part, what made it work was the realization that other people's beliefs, opinions, philosophies, religions, icons and ideologies are just that and no more. I quickly discovered where my bullshit ends and other people's begins.

If you want to turn any AA meeting into a food fight, just get them going on what the higher power really is. You'll soon find there's no more doctrinal or dogmatic uniformity in AA about this than there is in their choice of cars, clothes or breakfast cereal. But I'm in AA, I'm a hardnosed iconoclast and existentialist with a master's degree in Weberian sociology, and I fit right in. Can you deal with me as I am, an intellectual equal who doesn't suffer sophomores lightly, or do you have to ignore me and a million or so like me by erecting a stereotype?

In fact, the April issue of Grapevine magazine is devoted to his very topic:

Frankly, it sounds to me as though you've gone to AA, ferreted out a few simpletons whose religiostity you can confidentlly dismiss with contempt, and then used them as a template to write all the rest of us off as a bunch of mindless hicks. Your argument would be much more impressive if you were to pick on someone your own size, a brainiac like me, for instance.

Apr 6, 2009 -- 9:16AM, cherubino wrote:

Frankly, it sounds to me as though you've gone to AA, ferreted out a few simpletons whose religiostity you can confidentlly dismiss with contempt, and then used them as a template to write all the rest of us off as a bunch of mindless hicks. Your argument would be much more impressive if you were to pick on someone your own size, a brainiac like me, for instance.

lol

Cherub, I honestly had no idea I was picking on anyone. Heck, I'm one of those people who still have no career, no job, no degree, or much less anything worthwhile to live for, so if anyone deserves a roasting, it's me.

When I first realized I needed help bad, and crisis center and a few other people said, "you need the meetings," heck, I tried it. I didn't have any success, and what dysfunctional experiences I've had with AA since are purely chance. The truth is, I like AA, I just don't fit in very well, probably because of my supermassive, megalomaniacal and self-serving ego, no?

I would never dare presume to possess the intellect or education to take on a scrap in philosophy with a man of such erudition as yourself. But if you'll note in my post you quoted, I employed the words "seemingly egotistical," because I knew this is only what I thought at the time, and didn't resemble reality. This was my way of retroactive stereotyping based on my perceptions of the times, but I don't think like that anymore. Which, of course, lies at the root of this thread, where the years of sobriety have cleared my mind enough to where I can think with an open mind and recognize reality for what it is.

Next addiction, candy bars and caffeine...grrr..