Interesting, yes; I'm just not sure I buy into it. There are some fascets of myself that I face that others going through psycotherapy never do. Some of my friends undergoing therapy have embraced the fact that the way they act now is the direct result of the way they were raised, and have come to the conclusion that "It's not their fault". My program has included coming to grips with what my part of any bad situations in the past have been, and ,most importantly, how to avoid repeating the patterns that have been so damaging.
Will the psycotherapy provide the "Emotional Sobriety' that is lacking in more than just us Alcoholics?
Besides....treating Alcohol with drugs...c'mon....maybe I've got a sick sense of humor, but that's just funnY! ;)
Lots of folks treat alcoholism with drugs. Ever heard of the marijuana maintenance program? I know of quite a few who used drugs as an attempt to control and enjoy their drinking. Some convinced a physician to play along while others self prescribed. :D
I guess what I find interesting - I don't have much to disagree with. Oh, he jumped to some conclusions, but nothing too far. Part of an op-ed piece is to pick a position and try to defend it. I have the feeling that the author and I might disagree on the meaning of some terms - like spiritual. I really appreciated the end
The answer almost certainly lies deeper inside ourselves.
Where have I heard THAT before???:rolleyes:
As far as the differences you perceive in your approach and the therapeutic approach - Isn't it just a matter of emphasis? Seems like both could be described as examining at patterns created early in life and carried forward. The difference lies in what is done with the results of that examination.
The approach that worked for us is one of ego-reduction, while the approach favored by your friends sounds like ego-boosting. Not ever having any success with the therapeutic approach, I had to go a different route. But, if I could've, I would've.
And I would've missed out on something wonderful.
Mike
******************************************************* "When I've learned enough to really live, I'll be old enough to die" - Johnny Cash
I also feel we need to examine ourselves - what passes for a "12 Step program" in today's America isn't what I experienced in order to recover. Things mentioned in the article;
Some of the patients received spiritual guidance as part of the treatment — learning such practices as prayer, meditation and service to others, all of which are central to 12-step programs.
they aren't the solution - and that is what gets missed. Oh, those practices are certainly helpful, but they cannot produce an "entire psychic change". The steps are set up to provide you the ability to believe in a power greater than yourself. That power is the solution. It's very easy to fall into the trap of my-taking-the-steps is the solution, and that is just a socially acceptable form of self-centeredness. What some refer to as Spiritual Materialism It also occurs to me that in a treatment setting, the steps are used either as a therapeutic approach, or to supplement one. Which, I can't see that they were designed to do. 12 Steps are for folks like me who can't stay sober another way. Both the therapy folks and the 12 steppers who think they are doing the right thing by jumping into a therapy setting need to concede that one.
Mike
******************************************************* "When I've learned enough to really live, I'll be old enough to die" - Johnny Cash
:) So I guess the bottom line is that AA and the 12 steps are not designed to work for all, but for alcoholics like me. For some they don't want to know about a spiritual way, can't develop a spiritual sense, don't want to believe and think they can handle it themselves. Even in AA this attitude happens. When I look at those who slip and slip and slip, I ask why and MAYBE this is what creates within them the inability to be successful in AA, maybe ...
In one sense, while destructive patterns develop in the early years, I wonder if it really has to do with these patterns in early life and beyond, or with what caused those patterns to be a defense mechanism in the first place ... ie: my personality, my self-centred behaviour of which most Alcoholics can identify! It seems that even though I was taught about a HP and how to rely upon this power to do what a fully functioning human being should do, I continually got in the way or lost the way - the ability to use the spiritual power available. But I guess this can also be a the chicken/egg idea.
The alternative suggested in the article has today's prevalent ideology in that I can pick myself up by the bootstraps with just a little help from science, howbeit, the science of controlling the mind through knowledge of self, a process that for those who need AA, doesn't work for them.
hope this makes sense to you, seefan
:cool:
The sciences of this world are droplets of reality; if then they lead not to reality, what fruit can come of illusion? By the one true God! If learning be not a means of access to Him, the Most Manifest, it is nothing but evident loss. (Baha'i Faith)
:) So I guess the bottom line is that AA and the 12 steps are not designed to work for all, but for alcoholics like me. For some they don't want to know about a spiritual way, can't develop a spiritual sense, don't want to believe and think they can handle it themselves. Even in AA this attitude happens. When I look at those who slip and slip and slip, I ask why and MAYBE this is what creates within them the inability to be successful in AA, maybe ...
I don't know that "wanting" is enough.
I think it's perhaps a bit simpler, but perhaps more frightening. Some people cannot give themselves to this simple program.
Driven by fear, self-delusion,etc,etc - it can be impossible to surrender. There is a lack of honesty - or perhaps humility. I can't admit that I can't surrender, even if I am aware. I find that I have to admit 2 things in such a situation. 1 - that I'm driven and 2 - that I can't solve the issue myself.
Until I can concede that I'm powerless, I cannot (as opposed to " will not") give myself to this program.
Sadly, most often this isn't a reasoned (or even conscious) state of mind. I'm driven.
Mike
******************************************************* "When I've learned enough to really live, I'll be old enough to die" - Johnny Cash
