I’ve been a Mormon for over 50 years I think I know what it teaches.

Iron is right you are still taking your definition and applying it to ours. I’m trying to separate out the different items or points of doctrine using langue you should be able to understand.

We honestly do not use the word hell all that often. We speak in terms of spirit prison and outer darkness and don’t even dwell on that much either.

You quoting;
Mormon Salvation defined: To be saved from both physical and spiritual death. All people will be saved from physical death by the grace of God, through the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. Each individual can also be saved from spiritual death as well by the grace of God, through faith in Jesus Christ. This faith is manifested in a life of obedience to the laws and ordinances of the gospel and service to Christ.

So lets define spiritual death;

“Separation from God and his influences; to die as to things pertaining to righteousness. Lucifer and a third part of the hosts of heaven suffered a spiritual death when they were cast out of heaven (D&C 29:36–37).

Spiritual death was introduced into the world by the fall of Adam (Moses 6:48). Mortals with evil thoughts, words, and works are spiritually dead while still alive on earth (1 Tim. 5:6). Through the atonement of Jesus Christ and by obedience to the principles and ordinances of the gospel, men and women can become clean from sin and overcome spiritual death.

Spiritual death also occurs following the death of the mortal body. Both resurrected beings and the devil and his angels will be judged. Those who have willfully rebelled against the light and truth of the gospel will suffer spiritual death. This death is often called the second death (Alma 12:16; Hel. 14:16–19; D&C 76:36–38).”

Now D&C 76:36-38
“That he came into the world, even Jesus, to be crucified for the world, and to bear the sins of the world, and to sanctify the world, and to cleanse it from all unrighteousness; That through him all might be saved whom the Father had put into his power and made by him; Who glorifies the Father, and saves all the works of his hands, except those sons of perdition who deny the Son after the Father has revealed him.”

Most of those who go into the spirit prison having to pay for their own sins will at some point bow their knee to Christ as he is revealed to them.

Alma in the middle of his torment has Christ reveled to him;

“And it came to pass that as I was thus racked with torment, while I was harrowed up by the memory of my many sins, behold, I remembered also to have heard my father prophesy unto the people concerning the coming of one Jesus Christ, a Son of God, to atone for the sins of the world. Now, as my mind caught hold upon this thought, I cried within my heart: O Jesus, thou Son of God, have mercy on me, who am in the gall of bitterness, and am encircled about by the everlasting chains of death.

And now, behold, when I thought this, I could remember my pains no more; yea, I was harrowed up by the memory of my sins no more. And oh, what joy, and what marvelous light I did behold; yea, my soul was filled with joy as exceeding as was my pain!

Yea, I say unto you, my son, that there could be nothing so exquisite and so bitter as were my pains. Yea, and again I say unto you, my son, that on the other hand, there can be nothing so exquisite and sweet as was my joy.” Alma 36

I’m quoting again from Doctrine and Covenants sec 19

“ For behold, I, God, have suffered these things for all, that they might not suffer if they would repent; But if they would not repent they must suffer even as I;….I command you again to repent, lest I humble you with my almighty power; and that you confess your sins, lest you suffer these punishments of which I have spoken…”

There must be a point where a person languishing in the spirit prison is sufficiently humbled so they are able to hear or remember the teachings of the atonement of Christ. The Holy Spirit is able to reach and teach them, they do not deny him.

I found this article; God’s Plan—Kinder than We Dare to Expect
Which might shed some light. It’s written by H. Wallace Goddard. In it he quotes a lot from Frederick Denison Maurice and his writings on “the wider hope”, Also from Frederic W. Farrar’s, “Eternal Hope” 1878.

“Farrar taught that the Biblical words that were translated as hell were not intended by the Biblical authors to suggest a neverending state of suffering and punishment. Rather, “the Latin derivative was originally formed not to express mere torture, but cleansing, correcting, delivering from the stain of sin” (p. 408). For most of those who were consigned to hell, it was intended to be temporary and corrective”

That is what we are saying, those who will not bow the knee to Christ will go through this cleansings, they see all of their sins and feel a great remorse. Luke wrote of Christ suffering in the Garden “…being in an agony he prayed more earnestly..”. Somehow he took upon himself all of our sins, he suffered in agony that we might not have to.

I suggest you read the whole article; this quote fits our discussion here.

“A new understanding of hell

Modern revelation teaches us that hell entails terrible suffering (D&C 19:15). But we also learn that the only hell that endures without end is the suffering of the sons of perdition (D&C 76:37–38). “he saves all except them” (D&C 76:44). Those who commit all manner of sin but do not deny the Holy Ghost are cast into hell to pay for their own sins. But their hell has an end. They are cleansed and are released to the telestial kingdom (D&C 76:85,106; Matthew 12:31), a degree of glory so joyous that it “surpasses all understanding” (D&C 76:89). The fact that liars, sorcerers, adulterers, and whoremongers will be allowed to pay for their sins and receive a degree of joyous glory is astonishing. It may seem to be too kind to be true. Yet, that is what we should expect from a God who is perfect in knowledge and perfect in love. His plan is always kinder than we had dared to expect.

Part of the sectarian world’s theological difficulty is that they only have an all-or-nothing plan of salvation. A person goes to bliss or to unending pain—heaven or hell. Churches define differently the critical requirements for heaven. But logic revolts at the suggestion that any requirement should divide all of God’s children into two groups with vastly different rewards.

Modern revelation tells us not only about the three degrees of glory but suggests that within each kingdom there are differences that allow for the unique expression of every human being (D&C 131:1, John 14:2). Even in the telestial kingdom, “one star differs from another star in glory” (D&C 76:98).

www.drwally.org/celebrating-god/god%E2%8...

Apr 30, 2012 -- 2:41PM, Joe68 wrote:

Saying that those in the telestial heaven will not see the fullness of Jesus, or that the must suffer for their sins or that the TK is a lesser heaven or that those there will bow to the Mormon Jesus at some time in the future (after they are in heaven) does not mitigate against the fact the Mormon church teaches that those in the telesial heaven get there without accepting either the gospel or a testimony of Jesus, either on earth or in the spirit world and those there are those who will not repent.

Methinks that if the term "Heaven" wasn't present you wouldn't have a single issue with any of this.

Joe; Re the Alma story you posted. I’m not exactly sure what the purpose of it was either. He suffered in this life, correct? How does this impact how one will suffer in the Mormon spirit prison? And the result of that suffering?

I’m using it as a type or shadow of what is to come.

Joe; … the Mormon church on its very own website say that those in the telesial heaven are there even though did not accept either the gospel or a testimony of Jesus, either on earth or in the spirit world and they are those who will not repent.

Let’s break this down further for you.

There is given during this earth life a time to repent. Then there is the spirit world consisting of paradise and the prison where the gospel is taught and those spirits are allowed to repent and accept Christ.

And then there is hell the place where those who would not repent “either on earth or in the spirit world” go to suffer for their own sins. When they have suffered enough the Holy Spirit will be able to reach to them as he did with Alma and they will call out

“ O Jesus, thou Son of God, have mercy on me, who am in the gall of bitterness, and am encircled about by the everlasting chains of death.”

They will be brought out of that hell and receive their reward.

Really Joe do you want to worship a god who is a monster, a god who would cause the eternal suffering of anyone. He’s suppose to be a God of perfect love. I guess I just don’t understand your position.

Joe; For something to be a type or foreshadow something else they must share some similarities.

Alma was discussing the pains of a damned soul, seems similar to me.

Zeezrom goes through a similar experience in Alma 14 & 15

“Zeezrom was astonished at the words which had been spoken; and he also knew concerning the blindness of the minds, which he had caused among the people by his lying words; and his soul began to be harrowed up under a consciousness of his own guilt; yea, he began to be encircled about by the pains of hell.”

“Zeezrom lay sick at Sidom, with a burning fever, which was caused by the great tribulations of his mind on account of his wickedness, for he supposed that Alma and Amulek were no more; and he supposed that they had been slain because of his iniquity. And this great sin, and his many other sins, did harrow up his mind until it did become exceedingly sore, having no deliverance; therefore he began to be scorched with a burning heat…and they went in unto the house unto Zeezrom; and they found him upon his bed, sick, being very low with a burning fever; and his mind also was exceedingly sore because of his iniquities”

There is an actual physical pain our own minds will put us through as we seek forgiveness.

What do you want the pains of hell to be, real fire and brimstone?

Joe; However if you read the OP you will see that the Mormon Telestial Kingdom (3rd level) is for those who do not repent, who reject Jesus, his gospel, have no faith and etc.

Who will not repent on this earth or in the spirit prison when given the opportunity before they enter hell.

You're quibbling again. I am a Mormon I know the gospel why are you jumping up and down on this except you again can’t stand to be wrong.

Joe; You are at odds with the official LDS teaching.

As a Mormon who understands the ins and outs of Mormon doctrine and Mormon terminology when I read “the spirit world” I understand it to mean paradise and the spirit prison where Peter says Jesus went to teach the spirits. When I read hell I understand it to mean, the place were spirits will go to suffer for their own sins and then finally outer darkness.

You are trying to force your own made up Mormon doctrine on us so you can find fault.

I think we are done with this subject.