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2 years ago  ::  May 08, 2012 - 2:12AM #41
Joe68
Posts: 289

May 7, 2012 -- 11:34PM, withwonderingawe wrote:


Joe; "It is his Father in law; he is simply expressing deferential respect


Verse 11 Now I know that the Lord is greater than all gods, because in this affair they dealt arrogantly with the people.


You say that Jethro was a “friend of god” and a MP but he is only NOW understanding that the Lord is greater than all the false pagan deities? If he was a priest of the Lord he would known that." 



Again Joe I just keep assuming you know the Bible but you surprise me. Jethro is simply referring to Deut 32 which is translated wrong in the KJV it should read;


“Remember the days of old, consider the years of many generations: ask thy father, and he will shew thee; thy elders, and they will tell thee. When the most High divided to the nations their inheritance, when he separated the sons of Adam, he set the bounds of the people according to the number of the sons of God. For the Lord’s portion is his people; Jacob is the lot of his inheritance.”


This does not mean Israel was polytheistic in any sense. It is referring to the 70 sons of El or angels who were placed over the different nations as care givers after the earth was divided.


Yahweh’s responsibility was Israel and He was as God head of the Devine council of these sons or Host of Heaven. That’s why one of Yahweh’s title is Lord of Host. (do you really want me to go through all the different passages?)


I believe this is how paganism first began. All peoples and nations were suppose to worship or make offerings to Yahweh who was the mediator between man and El through their own lesser sons.



Abraham’s family was the chosen nation who went directly through Yahweh.


There is a reference to this in Isa 44


“Thus saith the Lord the King of Israel, and his redeemer the Lord of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God. And who, as I, shall call, and shall declare it, and set it in order for me, since I appointed the ancient people? and the things that are coming, and shall come, let them shew unto them….Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any.”


The word “ancient” there is that same word used as everlasting or eternal. Yahweh is referring to the sons of El who he appointed over the nations and are part of the host of heaven. Of all of them He alone is God, there is none else. He goes on to say


“They that make a graven image are all of them vanity”



But when Moses goes up to the mountain it actually says the Mountain of the Gods. It is plural and there is no singular noun. Jethro was the priest of his tribe and being a descendant of Abraham he offered sacrifice to Yahweh to petition El. Their may have been other priest at that same mountain who were suppose to petition their own angel who would then petition Yahweh.


But somewhere there men began to reject Yahweh as God to worship their own lesser son/angel of El as a God which they weren’t. Jewish traditions says it was Nimrod who first taught men to worship false gods and Shem became so angry he slew him.


Moses warned the people about worshiping false gods.


"…And lest thou lift up thine eyes unto heaven, and when thou seest the sun, and the moon, and the stars, even all the host of heaven, shouldest be driven to worship them, and serve them, which the Lord thy God hath divided unto all nations under the whole heaven."


The different sons or host of heaven were represented by the different objects in the night sky; Ra the Egyptian god was God of the sun, Yarikh was a moon god. Even Yahweh was the morning star.


But even with the warnings Manasseh "…built altars for all the host of heaven in the two courts of the house of the Lord".


I see Jethro some what like Jonah who tried to run away from Yahweh. The belief was the land was divided up between the different sons so if he ran to another land he wouldn’t have to obey Yahweh. He found out differently, didn’t make him less a prophet. Jethro may have had the same view and learned by what happened to Israel that “the Lord is greater than all gods”.




This issue was and still is whether you can provide evidence that Jethro was a Melchizedek priest. Nothing you wrote here does that.

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2 years ago  ::  May 08, 2012 - 8:04AM #42
withwonderingawe
Posts: 5,074

Does the Bible speak of another order of priesthood? 

Wise men still seek him.
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2 years ago  ::  May 08, 2012 - 9:23AM #43
Joe68
Posts: 289

May 8, 2012 -- 8:04AM, withwonderingawe wrote:


Does the Bible speak of another order of priesthood? 



You are not going to get to where you want to go by default.


It is your stance that Jethro was a Melchizedek preist so please show the evidence that he was.


Please show how Jethro could have been a Melchizedek preist when he did not know that the Lord was greater than all the false gods.  

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2 years ago  ::  May 08, 2012 - 1:25PM #44
withwonderingawe
Posts: 5,074

Joe there is only one order of priesthood, Jethro is a priest so it must be the one and only priesthood.


1+1=2


Why is that so hard for you to reason through?


The only reason I can come up with is it does not fit your dogma so once again so you must set up an illogical argument.

Wise men still seek him.
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2 years ago  ::  May 08, 2012 - 1:37PM #45
Joe68
Posts: 289

May 8, 2012 -- 1:25PM, withwonderingawe wrote:


Joe there is only one order of priesthood, Jethro is a priest so it must be the one and only priesthood.


1+1=2


Why is that so hard for you to reason through?


The only reason I can come up with is it does not fit your dogma so once again so you must set up an illogical argument.




You say Jethro is a MP, but have yet to show that the text says this. If you have evidence of this then post it.


Simply posting "1+1=2" means nothing. Show it from the text.


Nor have you explained how he could be a MP and yet not know that the Lord was greater than the false pagan gods.






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2 years ago  ::  May 08, 2012 - 1:56PM #46
withwonderingawe
Posts: 5,074

me quoting me; I see Jethro some what like Jonah who tried to run away from Yahweh. The belief was the land was divided up between the different sons so if he ran to another land he wouldn’t have to obey Yahweh. He found out differently, didn’t make him less a prophet. Jethro may have had the same view and learned by what happened to Israel that “the Lord is greater than all gods”.




These other sons of God were very real to these people, they are real to me. I believe in angels as sons of God. I believe in guardian angels who watch over us. I believe God and his angels are very much involved in our lives. I understand Jethro, to him these angels were very real beings who influnced their every day life.




Once again you're making this harder than it is!  

Wise men still seek him.
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2 years ago  ::  May 08, 2012 - 2:32PM #47
Joe68
Posts: 289

May 8, 2012 -- 1:56PM, withwonderingawe wrote:


me quoting me; I see Jethro some what like Jonah who tried to run away from Yahweh. The belief was the land was divided up between the different sons so if he ran to another land he wouldn’t have to obey Yahweh. He found out differently, didn’t make him less a prophet. Jethro may have had the same view and learned by what happened to Israel that “the Lord is greater than all gods”.


These other sons of God were very real to these people, they are real to me. I believe in angels as sons of God. I believe in guardian angels who watch over us. I believe God and his angels are very much involved in our lives. I understand Jethro, to him these angels were very real beings who influnced their every day life.


Once again you're making this harder than it is! 



So Jethro was on the run from Yahweh, didn’t want to obey Yahweh, and didn’t even know if the Lord was greater than all false pagan gods and yet this qualified him to be a Melchizedek priest?


The qualifications are as stated earlier: "holy, blameless, pure, set apart from sinners, exalted above the heavens". How in the world do those attitudes and actions correspond to those qualifications?


 I’ll save you the trouble of looking in the Bible for any support for your view.  The Mormon church admits that the Melchizedek Priesthood is mentioned only in Ps. 110:4; Heb. 2:17–18; 3:1; 5:6, 10; 6:20; 7:11, 15, 17, 21;


All this business of Jethro and the other patriarchs having the MP comes from Joseph Smith, meaning it is not the Biblical view.    




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2 years ago  ::  May 08, 2012 - 3:19PM #48
withwonderingawe
Posts: 5,074

Joe; So Jethro was on the run from Yahweh, didn’t want to obey Yahweh, and didn’t even know if the Lord was greater than all false pagan gods and yet this qualified him to be a Melchizedek priest?




Do you know the difference between Jonah and Jethro? 

Wise men still seek him.
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2 years ago  ::  May 08, 2012 - 3:27PM #49
Joe68
Posts: 289

May 8, 2012 -- 3:19PM, withwonderingawe wrote:


Joe; So Jethro was on the run from Yahweh, didn’t want to obey Yahweh, and didn’t even know if the Lord was greater than all false pagan gods and yet this qualified him to be a Melchizedek priest?


Do you know the difference between Jonah and Jethro? 




You said he was "somewhat like jonah"


In any case I await the answers to my questions above.




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