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Switch to Forum Live View Romney’s Mormonism
7 years ago  ::  Jun 09, 2011 - 5:45PM #1
Posts: 6,091
Because some questions have been asked about Romney’s Mormonism I’m bring this over from the US News & Politics page. 

Jasr; If you really want an excuse to be down on the Mormons, I suggest Conan Doyle's Study in Scarlet. 

You’re looking to a book of fiction to tell you about Mormonism? May I suggest you read this article about Doyle’s family’s visit to Utah;

His daughter speaking;“…..You know father would be the first to admit that his first Sherlock Holmes novel was full of errors about the Mormons," she said. " My brothers Denis, Adrian and I were all very apprehensive when we got near Utah. We thought we would be kidnapped or something.

"We were all so relieved to find out how friendly the people really turned out to be." Dame Jean was 10 at the time; her brothers were 14 and 12.

….. During his brief stay at the Hotel Utah, Sir Arthur received a letter from a Dr. G. Hodgson Higgins, who as a non-Mormon, explained that his first impressions of the church had been tainted because of A Study In Scarlet, which "gave the impression that murder was a common practice among them." Higgins suggested the author "express his regret at having propagated falsehoods about the Mormon Church and people."
Sir Arthur responded that in the future he would write of the Latter-day Saints as he found them on his visit. But, he insisted, "all I said about the Danite Band and the murders is historical so I cannot withdraw that tho it is likely that in a work of fiction it is stated more luridly than in a work of history. It's best to let the matter rest."
That and his praise of the pioneers was as close as he would come to a public apology.
In his 1991 visit with the novelist's then 78-year-old daughter, Michael Homer was told by Dame Jean that her father "relied on anti-Mormon works by former Mormons because he believed these accounts to be factual."

The anti Mormon books and info Doyle would have gleaned his story from were written just to sell books, never mind the truth. 

Yes there were some bad Mormons but 99% of them were good people living like they thought God wanted them to, just like everyone else did and does.
One of the problems of knowing the truth is the confusion between what was called the ‘Armies of Israel’ and a group called ‘the Danites’. The Armies of Israel were formed as a legal defensive organization. The men were broken up into groups taking turns guarding the towns from mobs, cutting wood and making sure everyone was safe.  The Danites were a small secretive group of men who got carried away with hate, taking revenge out on the Missourians who stole their land. The problem was the Danites belong to both groups and so historians have confused the actions of the smaller group with the actions of the other.  The leader of the Danites was excommunicated as soon as Joseph Smith realized what he was doing. 

Druac; …. and keeping minorities out of the leadership roles 

I’m going to assume he is referring to blacks and the priesthood problem. 
The Book of Mormon is a story about racisms. The races fight each other back and forth through the whole book. Each side takes it’s turn at being righteous and unrighteous. 

But at one point they come together in one;
“And it came to pass in … the people were all converted unto the Lord, upon all the face of the land, both Nephites and Lamanites, and there were no contentions and disputations among them, and every man did deal justly one with another. And they had all things common among them; therefore there were not rich and poor, bond and free, but they were all made free, and partakers of the heavenly gift. …they did walk after the commandments which they had received from their Lord and their God…there was no contention in the land, because of the love of God which did dwell in the hearts of the people.”

That is the point of the Book of Mormon, until we can all let the love of God dwell in our hearts we won’t fined the peace we all want so much. 

I have a little knowledge on the black issue in the Church which I’ll try to explain. If someone knows more please feel free to correct me. 

For something to become policy in the Church it must pass through the Council of the 12 Apostles, unanimously. Deigning the priesthood to the blacks never was. Joseph Smith ordained several black men but sometime after his death Brigham Young just degreed it. Kind of like Obama has been doing. There are a few passages of scripture which refers to it but judging by the actions of Joseph Smith he didn’t understand them the way Young interpreted them.

Starting in the 1950s and with David O. Mckay the church began trying to change the policy. There was a vote in the council but it failed by one vote, that being Harold B. Lee.  
I found this at Wiki;“D. Michael Quinn speculates that it was Lee who blocked the LDS Church from rescinding the Negro doctrine in 1969, a move favored by Hugh B. Brown. In 1969, after McKay's health failed, and some others within the church leadership thought the doctrinal basis for the exclusion of people of African ancestry from the priesthood was shaky, the remaining First Presidency and the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles (minus Harold B. Lee, who was traveling) voted to rescind the racial exclusion policy; however, that vote was reversed when Lee returned and called for a re-vote, arguing that the policy could not be changed without a revelation.”

(I don’t know how reliable Quinn is!)

Lee became the head of the Church in July 1972 what he wanted was a full on big time revelation but sometimes the lord doesn’t work that way. He waits to see how men’s hearts have changed. Lee only lasted until December of 73 when he had a sudden heart attack.  
Between 73 and 78 a lot of different things began taking place. First the Church began to expand all across the world. A new temple was announced in Brazil and many black people were joining the Church. Same too in Africa there were large congregations of blacks calling themselves Mormons and waiting for missionaries to come baptize them. Here in the US the Supreme court finally overturned the last laws preventing blacks from voting etc., they were finally really free. 

I read a book about Spencer Kimball’s wife, he was the prophet which finally made the change in 1978. She said he was spending so much time in the temple she thought there was something seriously wrong but then they made the announcement and it was something right and wonderful. 

This statement was released on June 8 1978      

“He has heard our prayers, and by revelation has confirmed that the long-promised day has come when every faithful, worthy man in the church may receive the Holy Priesthood, with power to exercise its divine authority, and enjoy with his loved ones every blessing that follows there from, including the blessings of the temple. Accordingly, all worthy male members of the church may be ordained to the priesthood without regard for race or color. Priesthood leaders are instructed to follow the policy of carefully interviewing all candidates for ordination to either the Aaronic or the Melchizedek Priesthood to insure that they meet the established standards for worthiness.”

I remember that day. I was listing to the radio when they broke in with the announcement, I called my mom and we both cried with tears of joy together. It was a great day, people were literally dancing in the streets. 

Now according to those who were in the Temple with president Kimball there was a great revelation or an experience like the Day of Pentecost. 

 “Gordon B. Hinckley (a participant in the meetings to reverse the ban), in a churchwide fireside said, "Not one of us who was present on that occasion was ever quite the same after that. Nor has the Church been quite the same. All of us knew that the time had come for a change and that the decision had come from the heavens. The answer was clear. There was perfect unity among us in our experience and in our understanding."
Wise men still seek him.
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7 years ago  ::  Jun 09, 2011 - 5:54PM #2
Posts: 6,091

I have my own feelings on the subject;

Did Brigham Young receive some revelation concerning blacks and the priesthood, well he never said he did so I don’t know. But he also said the day would come when the ban would be lifted and they would receive all of the blessing of the priesthood and more, which seems like a prophecy of sorts. 

There are some deeper doctrines which teach the lack of priesthood can be a blessing for we are only judged by the light which we have received and nothing more. Also the first shall be last and the last shall be first. I was taught as a young girl before the priesthood ban was lifted that a righteous black person would enter the Kingdom of God before me.  

To have the priesthood one must have self determination. You have to be able to take on covenants which require a lot of time and obedience.  Without full personal freedom it would be very difficult to honor the priesthood as should be done. Black people in America did not truly have that kind of freedom until late into the sixties and seventies. Only when the White’s hearts became softened and at least a little more full of the love of God were the Blacks then given more responsibility and now will be judged by that responsibility. (I hope that made sense there)

I see the Church is the bride of Christ preparing herself for her groom but she isn’t ready yet. Some of her jewels are still missing and she needs her veil put on before she can meet her groom.  With the priesthood being extended to the blacks as Joseph Smith intended we have put on more of our jewels and are coming closer to being readied for our Lord.


Wise men still seek him.
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