Post Reply
Switch to Forum Live View Regarding earthquakes
3 years ago  ::  Mar 12, 2011 - 5:53PM #1
Upperlimits
Posts: 3,022

Following a conversation in the community forum, I have a question relative to the conversation...


community.beliefnet.com/go/thread/view/4...


Question:


When Jesus said, "there shall be earthquakes in divers places"; was he talking about an actual measurable increase in the frequency of earthquakes corresponding to the fulfillment of time?


Or was he trying to get across the idea that people will consider an earthquake to be nothing out of the ordinary, because earthquakes have always been occurring since time began? IOW, the world continues as it was in the beginning, people marrying and giving in marriage, and such, until destruction suddenly overtakes them. An earthquake would just be another "occurence", and life would go-on.


Could I get you to expound your thoughts on this, please?

According to 2nd Corinthians 3:2, there are five gospels in the world. Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, and the Epistle of ones own life.  Most people will probably never read the first four.

God desires that our lives would bear spiritual fruit - not religious nuts.
Quick Reply
Cancel
3 years ago  ::  Mar 13, 2011 - 3:00PM #2
Kianna
Posts: 61

Mar 12, 2011 -- 5:53PM, Upperlimits wrote:


Following a conversation in the community forum, I have a question relative to the conversation...


community.beliefnet.com/go/thread/view/4...


Question:


When Jesus said, "there shall be earthquakes in divers places"; was he talking about an actual measurable increase in the frequency of earthquakes corresponding to the fulfillment of time?


Or was he trying to get across the idea that people will consider an earthquake to be nothing out of the ordinary, because earthquakes have always been occurring since time began? IOW, the world continues as it was in the beginning, people marrying and giving in marriage, and such, until destruction suddenly overtakes them. An earthquake would just be another "occurence", and life would go-on.


Could I get you to expound your thoughts on this, please?





Upperlimits,  Jesus told his disciples that one of the signs of the conclusion of this system of things is that there will be earthquakes "in one place after another." Therefore, one can expect to see an increase in the frequency of earthquakes in the end of the system of things.  Jesus also said that there would be people living in the time of the end who would "take no note" of the times they were living in.  Such people would think nothing of the increase in the frequency of earthquakes.      

Quick Reply
Cancel
3 years ago  ::  Mar 14, 2011 - 2:42AM #3
Upperlimits
Posts: 3,022

Mar 13, 2011 -- 3:00PM, Kianna wrote:


Mar 12, 2011 -- 5:53PM, Upperlimits wrote:


Following a conversation in the community forum, I have a question relative to the conversation...


community.beliefnet.com/go/thread/view/4...


Question:


When Jesus said, "there shall be earthquakes in divers places"; was he talking about an actual measurable increase in the frequency of earthquakes corresponding to the fulfillment of time?


Or was he trying to get across the idea that people will consider an earthquake to be nothing out of the ordinary, because earthquakes have always been occurring since time began? IOW, the world continues as it was in the beginning, people marrying and giving in marriage, and such, until destruction suddenly overtakes them. An earthquake would just be another "occurence", and life would go-on.


Could I get you to expound your thoughts on this, please?





Upperlimits,  Jesus told his disciples that one of the signs of the conclusion of this system of things is that there will be earthquakes "in one place after another." Therefore, one can expect to see an increase in the frequency of earthquakes in the end of the system of things.  Jesus also said that there would be people living in the time of the end who would "take no note" of the times they were living in.  Such people would think nothing of the increase in the frequency of earthquakes.      





The only real problem I have with this is that according to the US geological research, scientists have not noted ANY increase in the frequency of earthquakes whatsoever. They've  been keeping records for over 100 years now.


What has been noted in an increase in communication about earthquakes. We now know in seconds, something that has happened on the other side of the planet. More recording is taking place, such that small tremors that may have been overlooked a century ago, are now being recorded. And much more accurate records are being kept. But scientists really don't believe that there is an overall increase in their numbers.


Consequently, I don't think the scientific data lines up with belief that there is an actual increase. This, of course, doesn't rule out the possibility that earthquakes "may" increase in  frequency in the future, thus, at that time, potentially providing a proof of your hypothesis. But for the moment, the fact is, they just haven't done so up until this point.


Now: Getting back to what you have said... and I quote, "Jesus told his disciples that one of the signs of the conclusion of this system of things is that there will be earthquakes." With this statement, I heartily concur.


Now, I already know that you do this theologically, but what I would like you to do is to explain the reasoning behind the leap in logic from 'earthquakes occurring' (which, BTW, is an ordinary, everyday event which has been happening from the beginning of time) to the statement, and again I quote, "Therefore, one can expect to see an increase in the frequency of earthquakes in the end of the system of things." Such is simply not explicitly stated in the text.


In other passages talking about the last days, Jesus also talks about people marrying and being given in marriage, but you haven't come to the conclusion that there will be an increase in marriages. Indeed, in actuality we are seeing the opposite, and unfortunately expect to see that trend continue, at least for the near future. But, despite current trends, we still see people marrying and being given in marriage; so we see continuity in the source text.


I'm trying to understand the incongruency between the source data, and the JW conclusion concerning the same. Therefore; Why do JW's draw the conclusion in this instance that earthquakes will actually increase? Is it because of an apocoplyptic perspective of JW's? Do you actually need such things as horrible ecological and natural disasters to occur, in order to prove your theological perspective? If so, how? And why?


 

According to 2nd Corinthians 3:2, there are five gospels in the world. Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, and the Epistle of ones own life.  Most people will probably never read the first four.

God desires that our lives would bear spiritual fruit - not religious nuts.
Quick Reply
Cancel
3 years ago  ::  Mar 15, 2011 - 11:22AM #4
Kianna
Posts: 61

Upperlimits,  I can't respond to your post right now, but I did want to let you know that I had read it and that I'll be back later. 

Quick Reply
Cancel
3 years ago  ::  Apr 28, 2011 - 6:18AM #5
Ed2
Posts: 3,322

Hi, UL. I haven't read it yet, but there's an interesting looking thread in the "Hot Topic Zone" forum that may be helpful to what you are asking about: MORE Earthquakes coming


Also, I found this lengthy article that may also provide you with answers to your question:


corior.blogspot.com/2006/02/watchtower-s...


 

I think that it's pretty sad and pretty unbelievable that there are so many healthy, powerful, and healing foods that I have learned about from watching "The Doctor Oz Show"...but unfortunately, most Americans from their childhood on up, have only learned how to eat what is essentially equivalent to 'garbage'...and are basically in a 'slumber' when it comes to not having a clue as to what that kind of food is doing to their bodies and to their health. It's really sad.

~Ed2

"Hmmm. So you're saying that for Jesus' followers(throughout the centuries) to truly live a 'godly' life, they had to believe that the end of the world was just around the corner?"

~Ed2(See post #53)

"Although, I think that I'll change that to: Also...I liked the way that you dodged what I had said about being 'concerned that the Bible had to use subterfuge as a means to an end' in my post #137."

~Ed2(See post #145)

"It's utterly beyond belief, that the wealthiest country in the history of the world, fails to care for all it's people."

~Dr. Patrick Dowling, MD(From The Doctor Oz Show, which aired on 11/23/11.)

"If I could prescribe any drug on the planet, it would be food [be]cause it works better, faster, and cheaper than any medication. Food is the most powerful medicine we have...to treat chronic disease like diabetes."

~Dr. Mark Hyman, MD(From The Doctor Oz Show, which aired on 01/13/12. Also, go to www.doctoroz.com for more information.)
Quick Reply
Cancel
3 years ago  ::  Aug 27, 2011 - 2:27PM #6
Newtonian
Posts: 12,099

Ed, Upper limits - Jesus simply said earthquakes in one place after another, and great earthquakes..   This sign is for all these things (earthquakes, great wars, famine, plague, lawlessness, etc.) to occur in one generation - and that has happenned.  Thankfully, this includes good things, like the good news of God's Kingdom to be preached in all nations (Matthew 24:7 ff, 14).   Certainly we have seen this since the onset of WWI in 1914.


The 1976 earthquake, some have estimated 500,000 or more killed - there is a very wide variance in the estimates - it may well have been the worst earthquake in history.


However, the more recent earthquakes  + tysunami in the Indian Ocean and in Japan underscore that our generation has seen this part of the composite sign of the last days.


"Massive Earthquakes. Jesus said: “There will be great earthquakes.” (Luke 21:11) If it seems to you that now more people than ever before are affected by earthquakes, you are correct. “Suddenly we are seeing a spurt in seismic activity globally,” observed Indian seismologist R. K. Chadha in 2007. “Nobody knows why.” Moreover, rapid population growth in areas prone to earthquakes has increased the toll of these disasters. The earthquake that struck the Indian Ocean in 2004 and the tsunami that followed made that year the “deadliest in nearly 500 years for earthquakes” and “the second most fatal in recorded history,” according to the U.S. Geological Survey." - "The Watchtower," 10/1/08, p. 7

Quick Reply
Cancel
3 years ago  ::  Aug 29, 2011 - 12:00AM #7
rangerken
Posts: 16,406

Hi JW's.


 This thread would work very well on the Jehovah's witnesses forum I think. And I'd like to move it there. But it seems to be going OK here, and there's no reason it has to be moved. So I'd appreciate it if some of you, specifically Newtonian, Ed2 and Upperlimits,  would comment about this. There's no hurry. If you'd like me to move the thread I will gladly do so. If you prefer it to remain here, here it shall stay.


Rangerken

Libertarian, Conservative, Life member of the NRA and VFW
Quick Reply
Cancel
3 years ago  ::  Sep 10, 2011 - 9:20PM #8
Ed2
Posts: 3,322

Aug 27, 2011 -- 2:27PM, Newtonian wrote:


The earthquake that struck the Indian Ocean in 2004 and the tsunami that followed made that year the “deadliest in nearly 500 years for earthquakes” and “the second most fatal in recorded history,” according to the U.S. Geological Survey." - "The Watchtower," 10/1/08, p. 7




Hmmm. I'm just wondering about the terrible earthquakes that happened nearly 500 years ago. Also, it's interesting that the most fatal earthquake in recorded history was on January 23, 1556:


www.brainyhistory.com/events/1556/januar...

I think that it's pretty sad and pretty unbelievable that there are so many healthy, powerful, and healing foods that I have learned about from watching "The Doctor Oz Show"...but unfortunately, most Americans from their childhood on up, have only learned how to eat what is essentially equivalent to 'garbage'...and are basically in a 'slumber' when it comes to not having a clue as to what that kind of food is doing to their bodies and to their health. It's really sad.

~Ed2

"Hmmm. So you're saying that for Jesus' followers(throughout the centuries) to truly live a 'godly' life, they had to believe that the end of the world was just around the corner?"

~Ed2(See post #53)

"Although, I think that I'll change that to: Also...I liked the way that you dodged what I had said about being 'concerned that the Bible had to use subterfuge as a means to an end' in my post #137."

~Ed2(See post #145)

"It's utterly beyond belief, that the wealthiest country in the history of the world, fails to care for all it's people."

~Dr. Patrick Dowling, MD(From The Doctor Oz Show, which aired on 11/23/11.)

"If I could prescribe any drug on the planet, it would be food [be]cause it works better, faster, and cheaper than any medication. Food is the most powerful medicine we have...to treat chronic disease like diabetes."

~Dr. Mark Hyman, MD(From The Doctor Oz Show, which aired on 01/13/12. Also, go to www.doctoroz.com for more information.)
Quick Reply
Cancel
 
    Viewing this thread :: 0 registered and 1 guest
    No registered users viewing
    Advertisement

    Beliefnet On Facebook