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Switch to Forum Live View Why wasn't Jesus of Nazareth "Christ" the messiah?
7 years ago  ::  Apr 22, 2011 - 6:23PM #21
Posts: 2,795

By the way, since this is the 'Welcome: JUDAISM' forum, we'd appreciate it if visitors would ASK questions, and let the Jews answer them, instead of butting in with irrelevent drivel unrelated to Judaism. It's rude, at least, if not actually transgressing the rules of the board.


(in fact, it IS transgressing the rules of the board, come to think of it.)

Blessed are You, HaShem, Who blesses the years.
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7 years ago  ::  Apr 23, 2011 - 1:15AM #22
Posts: 3,322

Apr 22, 2011 -- 10:37AM, Pam34 wrote:

Hi Ed:


Wow, such a lot of quotes.

Hi, Pam. I just wanted to let you know that I read your post and I had started to response to it(I spent probably about an hour on it so far), but I am having some hardware problems with my computer(not enough RAM) and after writing about half of my post, I clicked on a link that I looked up on Google, and that caused my computer to shut down and reboot and I lost everything that I had written.

Therefore, I am a little bit wounded right now  and I'm really not in the mood to start over again right now.

But I hope to be back eventually because I was really enjoying the post that I had written.

I think that it's pretty sad and pretty unbelievable that there are so many healthy, powerful, and healing foods that I have learned about from watching "The Doctor Oz Show"...but unfortunately, most Americans from their childhood on up, have only learned how to eat what is essentially equivalent to 'garbage'...and are basically in a 'slumber' when it comes to not having a clue as to what that kind of food is doing to their bodies and to their health. It's really sad.


"Hmmm. So you're saying that for Jesus' followers(throughout the centuries) to truly live a 'godly' life, they had to believe that the end of the world was just around the corner?"

~Ed2(See post #53)

"Although, I think that I'll change that to: Also...I liked the way that you dodged what I had said about being 'concerned that the Bible had to use subterfuge as a means to an end' in my post #137."

~Ed2(See post #145)

"It's utterly beyond belief, that the wealthiest country in the history of the world, fails to care for all it's people."

~Dr. Patrick Dowling, MD(From The Doctor Oz Show, which aired on 11/23/11.)

"If I could prescribe any drug on the planet, it would be food [be]cause it works better, faster, and cheaper than any medication. Food is the most powerful medicine we treat chronic disease like diabetes."

~Dr. Mark Hyman, MD(From The Doctor Oz Show, which aired on 01/13/12. Also, go to for more information.)
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7 years ago  ::  Apr 23, 2011 - 1:35AM #23
Posts: 2,795

yikes! oh the sometime oddities of computer- 'aided' life! That's a real nasty to have happen. I've lost posts once in a while but never a really big and complicated one  - I try not to even write big and complicated ones, even!


I know some people that write their posts in Word or notepad and then copy and paste on discussion sites, but that always seemed like an awful lot of work to me.

Blessed are You, HaShem, Who blesses the years.
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7 years ago  ::  Apr 28, 2011 - 2:44AM #24
Posts: 1,868

Christians see references to Jesus all throughout what they call the OT.

This interpretation makes a number of false assumptions:

1. Verses can be understood outside the context of the entire literary unit.

2.The prophet, while speaking to a specific audience of Jews of his time, was actually speaking to them prophecies they could not understand and that had little bearing on their current circumstances.

These assumptions render Scripture virtually meaningless. That makes no sense.

Scripture cannot be isolated from its plain meaning and context.

It is perfectly valid for Christians (and Jews) to find messages in Scripture that echo beleifs that they profess. That is creative interpretation - seeing hints in Scripture through the "glasses" of a specific belief system. But it pre-supposes the validity of those beliefs.

In reality, it "proves" nothing. That's not what the Scripture really means - and Christian scholars of the Bible (Albright, for example) agree with this. This is the meaning that Christians read into the text.

Try this exercise - read the verses that seem to refer to Jesus in context - read the section before and after. Then ask yourself what the words meant to the people that the prophet was speaking to - what message was he trying to convey that would be meaningful to them.

Does the verse or chapter still objectively speak only about Jesus? Does it "prove" the truth of Christianity to someone who does not share these pre-suppositions? Or does it read beliefs into the text that are not necessarily part of them?

A seperate point: you also have to take into account that Bible translations by Christians have a degree of Christian bias, and that Jews reading the original Hebrew may understand the text differently. For example, the famous "virgin" in Isaiah that has a child is not necesarily a virgin (betulah), but a young woman (almah). This rather changes things....


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7 years ago  ::  Apr 28, 2011 - 7:04AM #25
Posts: 2,795

Nahum - I HOPE this will make you laugh - as you know, Isaiah in Hebrew uses 'almah' (young woman) in chapter 7, rather than 'betulah' (virgin), while the Septuagint version uses 'parthenos' (primary meaning, virgin).


Recently, someone online (not here) suggested that the reason the Greek Septuagint uses parthenos is because they were using a variant version (but more accurate of course) of Isaiah where he DID use 'betulah' but the nasty Masoretes destroyed all those versions to hide that, and only kept the 'almah' ones for ideological reasons.




Good grief.


Blessed are You, HaShem, Who blesses the years.
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6 years ago  ::  Aug 12, 2012 - 2:37PM #26
Posts: 56

Shalom, my name is Nate and I live in Colorado and I'm a reform Jew. I flirted back and forth with Christianity for awhile but I am Jewish again. Jesus couldn't of been the Messiah because he didn't fulfill the Messianic prophecies, I was pretty brainwashed into Christianity for awhile but I'm not afraid anymore. The Messiah if you believe in a Messiah will bring World peace immediately and Jesus didn't do that. I have many Jewish friends who helped me realize that and I recommend Jews for Judaism for any Jewish person that is confused. The problem is Jews for Jesus is a Christian organization and they have certain tactics to convert Jewish people. I believe that G-d is one and Judaism is a true faith like other faiths and that's all I will write for now. Shalom-Nate.Wink

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