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6 years ago  ::  Jan 30, 2009 - 2:35AM #1
Mohamed Khalil
Posts: 17
Hello all,
You may find this unusual; I am not on the Christian forums to debate, I am actually studying Islamic Knowledge, I am  doing a paper on differences and similarities between the last two books sent from God (from my view), the topic at hand is the miracles of Jesus (Peace be upon him).

Unfortunately I have not studied Christianity well due to my occupation with studying Islam, buy this year I am studying the Quran and naturally as I come across the verses about the bible, Jesus, Christian stories, history and the Christian faith I will have the opportunity to study them in detail, God willing.

The topic at hand is the miracles God sent with Jesus (Peace be upon him), what I desperately need from you to please volunteer to clear my ignorance on them and whether or not they exist in the bible or in other Christian writings, even if they are slightly different. I will list a number of miracles found in the Quran and you can please tell me if they are in your faith too and where (just writing holy bible or the name of the other source will do, and if you have the time, you will be really helping me if you give me some detail, especially if there is a difference in the way the story is told or in the story itself. If there is a miracle that is not there or you do not know of, please do not say so unless you are sure (or my Paper would be a failure)

Here are the miracles from the Quran

1-    Healing the sick; we are told in the Quran that Jesus (peace be upon him) healed the blind, the lepers and the mute.

2-    Waking the dead

3-    Giving life; the Quran mentions that Jesus (peace be upon him) built a statue simulating a bird and then blew air from his mouth and the bird became alive

4-    The Banquet: actually a whole chapter is named “the banquet” in reference to this miracle, it is mentioned that the disciples asked Jesus if God could bring down a banquet (a very large dining table ) from heaven, they said they wanted to eat from it, comfort their hearts (by actually seeing this great event), re-assure themselves in the truth Jesus came with (this is not because they had doubt just re-assurance like I mentioned), and to be honored by witnessing this great miracle, Jesus then asks God to bring it down so it can be a feast for all of them and a miracle from God. The banquet is then sent down from the heavens before them

5-    Telling their secrets; Jesus was able to tell the people what their kept in their home and even what they had for meals

6-    Miracle birth; the Quran states that Jesus (peace be upon him was born without a father, Mary gave birth to him after the Angel Gabriel came to her to give her glad tidings about the miracle birth

7-    speaking as a baby; the Quran states Jesus spoke as a baby to his Mother Mary to re-assure her after she was terrified of what her people would say and do to her after the birth of Jesus ( it must have been terrifying to have a child and claim to be still a virgin in those times). Jesus also spoke to the people when they started pressuring Mary and questioning her on where she got the baby, Mary, told not to speak, pointed at baby Jesus and as they questioned on how she expects them to talk to him he spoke, clearing his mother from the false accusations, to explain to the people who he was and what he was sent to do.


I thank you all for reading and I thank those who will help in advance, you have no idea how much any valid information said here will be of help.
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6 years ago  ::  Jan 30, 2009 - 4:45AM #2
Hatman
Posts: 9,634

Mohamed Khalil wrote:

Hello all,
You may find this unusual; I am not on the Christian forums to debate, I am actually studying Islamic Knowledge, I am  doing a paper on differences and similarities between the last two books sent from God (from my view), the topic at hand is the miracles of Jesus (Peace be upon him).

Unfortunately I have not studied Christianity well due to my occupation with studying Islam, buy this year I am studying the Quran and naturally as I come across the verses about the bible, Jesus, Christian stories, history and the Christian faith I will have the opportunity to study them in detail, God willing.

The topic at hand is the miracles God sent with Jesus (Peace be upon him), what I desperately need from you to please volunteer to clear my ignorance on them and whether or not they exist in the bible or in other Christian writings, even if they are slightly different. I will list a number of miracles found in the Quran and you can please tell me if they are in your faith too and where (just writing holy bible or the name of the other source will do, and if you have the time, you will be really helping me if you give me some detail, especially if there is a difference in the way the story is told or in the story itself. If there is a miracle that is not there or you do not know of, please do not say so unless you are sure (or my Paper would be a failure)

Here are the miracles from the Quran

1-    Healing the sick; we are told in the Quran that Jesus (peace be upon him) healed the blind, the lepers and the mute.


True; the Bible contains many such testimonies, and hints that even the maimed had their limbs restored, as well.  For certain, a man who was paralyzed was healed---and when the slave of the High Priest, one of those sent to arrest Christ in the Garden of Gethsamane, had his ear cut off by the sword of Peter, Y'shua restored it to this slave on the very spot, even as He was being arrested.

2-    Waking the dead


True; there are at least 3 different testimonies of people Christ brought back from the dead that I'm aware of:  the widow's son; a young girl,  "Dorcas,"(aka "Tabitha"); and the most famous, Lazarus, who'd been dead 3 days before he was brought back.

3-    Giving life; the Quran mentions that Jesus (peace be upon him) built a statue simulating a bird and then blew air from his mouth and the bird became alive


This is not in the Bible, but I found something similar in something called the "Infancy Gospel of Jesus Christ."  Most scholars consider it to be pseudopigraphal, meaning that it would be what is often referred to as a "holy forgery."  IIRC, the tale involved a few boys who'd observed the Christ (as a boy) making clay representations of birds from river mud/clay on the Sabbath; when the boys reported this to the village elders, and these began to remonstrate with Him(whether for "working on the Sabbath" or "making images" is unclear from the text), He simply clapped His hands, and the clay birds came to life and flew away.  Again iirc, He called after the now-living birds, "Remember Me while you live!"(iirc=I.f I. R.ecall C.orrectly)  Since in the Bible, Christ is recorded as saying "With men, it is impossible, but with God, nothing is impossible[COLOR=Black],"[/COLOR] as well as "If you have faith the size of a mustard seed, you will say to this mountain, 'Be moved from here to there,' and it will move; and nothing will be impossible to you[COLOR=Black],"[/COLOR] I tend toward believing this to be more likely true than not.

4-    The Banquet: actually a whole chapter is named “the banquet” in reference to this miracle, it is mentioned that the disciples asked Jesus if God could bring down a banquet (a very large dining table ) from heaven, they said they wanted to eat from it, comfort their hearts (by actually seeing this great event), re-assure themselves in the truth Jesus came with (this is not because they had doubt just re-assurance like I mentioned), and to be honored by witnessing this great miracle, Jesus then asks God to bring it down so it can be a feast for all of them and a miracle from God. The banquet is then sent down from the heavens before them


The closest Biblical parallel would be the two incidences of "Loaves and fishes," in which a few scraps brought forward by a few generous individuals from the great multitudes that gathered to hear Him speak were fed by miraculous multiplication of what was there, in a parallel to Old Testament teaching, perhaps, of Elisha the Tishbite, who caused the remaining bits of a widow's food to last out the entirety of the remaining famine that was then upon the land---though Christ did so on a much larger scale, as in one instance, over 5000 men were fed, whereas in the second, over 3000.  Women and children were not mentioned, but one could assume either equivalent or greater numbers.  Christ soon perceived, however, that people began coming for more for the free food alone, however, and stopped doing this(though it would not surprise me in the slightest if He continued to feed His close disciples in secret in this or a similar manner, for it is written that elsewhere, when He was asked if He were hungry, He replied "I have food to eat ye know not of," [COLOR=Black]and the like[/COLOR]).

5-    Telling their secrets; Jesus was able to tell the people what their kept in their home and even what they had for meals


The New Testament is replete with examples of Christ being able to read minds, though no tale is related of such specificity as you indicate here; that said, it would not surprise me in the least that this were true.  He is referred to as the "Searcher of Mind and Heart," therefore nothing, whether great or small, mundane or profane, can ever be hidden from Him.

6-    Miracle birth; the Quran states that Jesus (peace be upon him was born without a father, Mary gave birth to him after the Angel Gabriel came to her to give her glad tidings about the miracle birth


True; the New Testament teaches that Mary(Miryam) was "overshadowed by the Holy Spirit," and soon had evidences of her pregnancy, which she shared with a relative, the mother of John the Baptist, who was pregnant at the same time.  However, the Angel Gabriel brought Mary the tidings that the Most High would soon visit and impregnate her, according to the New Testament.  The New Testament records in many, many places, that He is the Son of God; indeed, at John 10:30, He states that He and Our Father are One, and later, at John 10:35, He states Himself that He is the Son of God.

7-    speaking as a baby; the Quran states Jesus spoke as a baby to his Mother Mary to re-assure her after she was terrified of what her people would say and do to her after the birth of Jesus ( it must have been terrifying to have a child and claim to be still a virgin in those times). Jesus also spoke to the people when they started pressuring Mary and questioning her on where she got the baby, Mary, told not to speak, pointed at baby Jesus and as they questioned on how she expects them to talk to him he spoke, clearing his mother from the false accusations, to explain to the people who he was and what he was sent to do.


Again, the apocryphal "Infancy Gospel" teaches similarly, but the Bible itself contains no teaching that Christ could speak from the womb, except perhaps by inference due to the visit of the Magi, and the honor shown Him by many.  The Infancy gospel goes a bit further, and relates how certain women refused to believe that Mary was still a virgin; one insisted on inspecting her, and after she did, drew back a hand that had withered, a punishment for her unbelief, similar perhaps to the father of John the Baptist, who(according the the New Testmant) was struck dumb until after John's birth, when the first words the poppa was able to speak were:  "His name is John," after having been struck dumb when he laughed after his elderly wife, Elizabeth, announced that she was soon to give birth to a son.  If I understand it aright, Elizabeth and Mary were cousins.

I thank you all for reading and I thank those who will help in advance, you have no idea how much any valid information said here will be of help.


You are welcome; I find it a shame that so many seize upon the fact that the Muslims(in general) refuse to believe that God has a Son, "in whom the fullness of God was pleased to dwell bodily," and use this as a wedge to stir up completely unnecessary contention, division, and strife.  As one of the Founders and Framers (of America and the Constitution, respectively) put it, "(such religious beliefs) neither pick my pocket nor break my leg," meaning that WHAT someone believes is of far less importance than what they DO with what they believe, and how they treat one another because of those beliefs..

Warmest regards-

Hatman

"History records that the moneychangers have used every form of abuse, deceit, intrigue, and violent means possible to maintain their control over governments by controlling money and it's issuance."
-- James Madison(1751-1836), Father of the Constitution for the USA, 4th US President
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6 years ago  ::  Jan 30, 2009 - 6:33AM #3
tawonda
Posts: 4,367
Hatman has given you correct information, including pointing out which of those stories are not in our Scriptures but rather come from extra-biblical sources.

In general, the Gospels record, but tend to downplay, Jesus' displays of God's saving/healing power, and also indicate that the last thing Jesus wanted to be known as was as a magician or miracle worker "performing"; that rather he wanted these things to be signs to the people around him of God's Reign breaking into the sin and brokenness of the world. His emphasis, in the Gospels, is always on challenging his hearers to practice radical love, hospitality and caring in the world -- to lift up the poor and otherwise needy; to welcome the rejected, the marginalized, the "other" (his emphasis on social interaction and table fellowship with persons deemed "sinners" and "unclean" by the religious authorities -- the ritually unclean; women; children; Gentiles; the poor; persons on the low end of the societal scale in his world -- was a significant part of his ministry) ; to live in the world with a spirit of humility and self-giving; most importantly, to relate to God with the trust and intimacy and simplicity of a child with a parent, and to share that relationship and the way of life it leads to with others.
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6 years ago  ::  Jan 30, 2009 - 1:18PM #4
Ironhold
Posts: 11,515

Mohamed Khalil wrote:

1-    Healing the sick; we are told in the Quran that Jesus (peace be upon him) healed the blind, the lepers and the mute.


This happened repeatedly, but in each instance it was only after the infirmed party expressed faith that they would receive healing; people tend to miss this point.

2-    Waking the dead


It happened on a few occasions.

3-    Giving life; the Quran mentions that Jesus (peace be upon him) built a statue simulating a bird and then blew air from his mouth and the bird became alive


The four main Gospels (Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John) make no mention whatsoever of such an incident. In fact, doing so would have been an abuse of his abilities unless there was a distinct gospel purpose.

As it is, Jesus was - by trade - a carpenter and not a stonemason or sculptor and so would have most likely lacked the secular knowledge of how to create such a statue in the first place.

4-    The Banquet: actually a whole chapter is named “the banquet” in reference to this miracle, it is mentioned that the disciples asked Jesus if God could bring down a banquet (a very large dining table ) from heaven, they said they wanted to eat from it, comfort their hearts (by actually seeing this great event), re-assure themselves in the truth Jesus came with (this is not because they had doubt just re-assurance like I mentioned), and to be honored by witnessing this great miracle, Jesus then asks God to bring it down so it can be a feast for all of them and a miracle from God. The banquet is then sent down from the heavens before them


This actually runs counter to the four Gospels, where Jesus is routinely admonishing the apostles for their lack of faith.

At best, the "banquet" bit may be an exaggeration of two incidents in which he took a small amount of food and used his abilities to multiply everything so as to feed large crowds that had assembled in order to hear him.

5-    Telling their secrets; Jesus was able to tell the people what their kept in their home and even what they had for meals


No such instances were recorded in the four main Gospels.

6-    Miracle birth; the Quran states that Jesus (peace be upon him was born without a father, Mary gave birth to him after the Angel Gabriel came to her to give her glad tidings about the miracle birth


This is indeed true; Mary was to give birth without having ever known a man.

7-    speaking as a baby; the Quran states Jesus spoke as a baby to his Mother Mary to re-assure her after she was terrified of what her people would say and do to her after the birth of Jesus ( it must have been terrifying to have a child and claim to be still a virgin in those times). Jesus also spoke to the people when they started pressuring Mary and questioning her on where she got the baby, Mary, told not to speak, pointed at baby Jesus and as they questioned on how she expects them to talk to him he spoke, clearing his mother from the false accusations, to explain to the people who he was and what he was sent to do.


Aside from the Magi locating him when he was 6 and the incident in the temple when he was 12, the Gospels are silent about his life from the time he was born until the time he began his ministry.

In fact, Jesus speaking as a baby in order to defend his mother would run counter to descriptions that he grew and developed in learning and body like other children do.



A website that I would recommend scanning is Early Christian Writings.com.

For the scriptures that are canonical, the site contains multiple English translations so that a person can make comparisons.

For the non-canonical / apocryphal works, they do their best to present the material; for several works that we now have, only fragments have survived the ages.

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6 years ago  ::  Jan 30, 2009 - 1:32PM #5
miami-ted
Posts: 981
Hello Mohamed,

I'm curious, why do you always say 'peace be upon him' when you mention Jesus?  If anyone who has ever walked the face of this earth ever had the peace of God, which is eternal, everlasting peace, Jesus has had and always will have that peace.  It would seem to me that prayers that request he receive such peace are pretty much wasted prayers and show a degree of misunderstanding of who Jesus is. 

If you would like to look further into this, please email me at:  miamimac@bellsouth.net.

God bless.
In Christ, Ted.
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6 years ago  ::  Jan 30, 2009 - 2:47PM #6
tawonda
Posts: 4,367
I think that the Gospels show a Jesus who transformed people not simply by what he did but by who he was; that being with him, hearing him, experiencing his genuine compassion for them, interacting with him, having him share the mundane activities of their daily lives, were transformative experiences for people; that in being in his presence they felt the imminent presence and power of God, and moreover felt an invitation into a more intimate, trusting relationship with God. Around Jesus, God was no longer an abstraction. And Jesus also modeled a way of being in the world with not only a transformed relationship to God, but also a transformed relationship with others -- relationships based on mutual respect and mutual service.
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6 years ago  ::  Jan 30, 2009 - 5:26PM #7
Hatman
Posts: 9,634
Ironhold-

but in each instance it was only after the infirmed party expressed faith that they would receive healing; people tend to miss this point.


This is not strictly true; I can think of one instance where one who had NOT asked to be healed, nor expressed any faith whatsoever that he COULD be healed, was indeed healed, in a demonstration of unqualified grace, and as a teaching tool, to boot.

It may take some re-reading, but iirc, it was the fella of whom the Pharisees(or scribes, or sadducees) asked Him, 'Who sinned, this man, or his parents, that he was born blind?'  I think it may have been in John ch. 8 or 12, but at any rate, it may be where Christ said something quite profound, as is His wont:  "If you were blind, you would have no sin, but because you say you see, your sin remains."

Ok, I looked it up; see John ch. 9, and continue to the end of the story.

Warmest regards-

Hatman

"History records that the moneychangers have used every form of abuse, deceit, intrigue, and violent means possible to maintain their control over governments by controlling money and it's issuance."
-- James Madison(1751-1836), Father of the Constitution for the USA, 4th US President
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6 years ago  ::  Jan 30, 2009 - 9:11PM #8
Ironhold
Posts: 11,515

miami-ted wrote:

Hello Mohamed,

I'm curious, why do you always say 'peace be upon him' when you mention Jesus?  If anyone who has ever walked the face of this earth ever had the peace of God, which is eternal, everlasting peace, Jesus has had and always will have that peace.  It would seem to me that prayers that request he receive such peace are pretty much wasted prayers and show a degree of misunderstanding of who Jesus is.


It's part of the theology to qualify references to Jesus, Mohammed, or other similar figures with that phrase.

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6 years ago  ::  Jan 31, 2009 - 2:48AM #9
Xristocharis
Posts: 5,051

miami-ted wrote:

Hello Mohamed,

I'm curious, why do you always say 'peace be upon him' when you mention Jesus?  If anyone who has ever walked the face of this earth ever had the peace of God, which is eternal, everlasting peace, Jesus has had and always will have that peace.  It would seem to me that prayers that request he receive such peace are pretty much wasted prayers and show a degree of misunderstanding of who Jesus is. 

If you would like to look further into this, please email me at:  miamimac@bellsouth.net.

God bless.
In Christ, Ted.


The answer Ironhold offered you is correct. The phrase "Peace be upon him" (often shortened to PBUH) is a way of showing reverence and respect to all the holy prophets of Islam. Whereas referencing Muhammed, the last of the prophets, a more elaborate benediction is said ("May God bless him and give him peace."). In Arabic the phrase is Alayhis salaam.

-Jon

"When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist." - Dom Hélder Câmara
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6 years ago  ::  Jan 31, 2009 - 7:05PM #10
URK(S.B.)
Posts: 373
Xohamed,

Out of the miricles you list 3 & 7 are not found in Christian scriptures! 3 - there is no mention of this in the sources of Christianity! Yet the breath of life does come from The Almighty Father and that is documented!
7- The sources of Christianity resolve this matter differently. Joseph was visited by an angel and told who the child was just as Mary was soon before his birth! Joseph then proclaimed mary was not a foricator and any witnesses would have to have further evidence to speak against their brotheren!!!!

As of fulfilments through Christ (Yeshuwah) Here are a few and their documentations. Note the O.T. =N.T!!!!!
(http://community.beliefnet.com/?page_id … up_id=1619)

I will respect our differences but I personally see no need for the "peace be with him" for He is that peace and mercy and sacrifice. It would be better to say peace be with us. That like unto saying Bless Alah! and if a more respectable mention is given to "Mohammad" I see this as disrespect instead of respect! I'm pleased to hear you claim to be interested in CHRIST. I have thoughts on the last "prophet" of Islam, but dont share them nor the documentation that show who he is in Christian studies out of respect when speaking to those of Islam cause we already know what faiths we are and it would only cause division and strife when we could be covering resemblances in our sources and seeking common truths and studies together in peace and respect! Perhaps it is something to consider when communicating with Disiples of Christ!
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