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7 years ago  ::  Jun 18, 2008 - 1:29PM #1
Stone_coyote
Posts: 9
Hello,

This is my first post, but I've lurked here for quite sometime.  My mother and I are very close and she has helped me in my spiritual search.  She herself studied Wicca as a teen and thought it completely evil.  She was not happy when I began studying it at age 15, so I pretended I did not believe it, even forced myself to ignore the Goddess calling me.  I cannot do it anymore.  I've renounced Wicca for a little over five years and I cannot anymore, I can't ignore the Goddess's call to me. 

My mother does not want to hear the word Wicca mentioned and says that if i tell anyone, she will smack and/or disown me.  I am not allowed books on my faith.  What should I do?  Is it possible to convince her that it is not evil when she doesn't want to hear it?

Blessed be,

Coyote
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7 years ago  ::  Jun 18, 2008 - 3:43PM #2
TheWhiteHart
Posts: 1,634
MM Coyote. I guess a lot depends on whether you still live under your mother's roof, or not. It being her house, her rules and wishes should be respected. If you live on your own, then you have every right to do as you please. You are an adult and capable of making your own decisions regarding the path you choose in life.

You might wish to ask your mother why she thought it evil after studying it. I would hazard a guess that she had a rather traumatic experience with her own parents over it and her current view on it may be an over reaction to such.

As Wicca is an experiential religion, no book can really give you the whole of it. Your best bet might be to find someone who can teach you locally. If not, you are certainly welcome to ask questions on the Wicca boards here, or do some web searching on your own. Be discerning in what you read, however.

There are other things you can do, also. Study various religions, mythology, nature, meditate, keep a magical journal (a locked diary works well) and the like.

Rain
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7 years ago  ::  Jun 18, 2008 - 10:14PM #3
Stone_coyote
Posts: 9
Thanks, Rain.  My mother was pregnant with me when she went to a ritual performed by a Wiccan friend of hers.  She said that being she felt ill there and went outside for fresh air.  She came back in the house and instantly felt ill again.  She's never forgotten that and always tells me that that is the reason why she hates, yes HATES, Wicca.  I am hoping to move out as soon as I can afford it.  I may have to wait a while though, as I suffer from Asperger's Syndrome and Non-verbal learning disorder.  I can take care of myself all right, but there are times when I need a push to do somethings.
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7 years ago  ::  Jun 19, 2008 - 11:45AM #4
TheWhiteHart
Posts: 1,634
Ah... a pregnant woman during ritual might well feel ill considering the incense clouds that can fill a room. Unfamiliar scents can cause severe nausea.
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7 years ago  ::  Jun 19, 2008 - 1:34PM #5
Stone_coyote
Posts: 9
She blames it on the 'devil-worshipping' going on.  On national Geographic at Sahmien(sp!) there was a program on the history of Halloween and in gave an inside look of a pagan/possibly Wiccan coven ritual.  One of the chants used was "seed sown, grain reborn, Horned One come!"  My mom freaked out saying 'this is what you believe?!  They summoning the Devil!"  I explained that, no the Devil doesn't exisit in Wicca, and that the Horned One was the Celtic God Cerrnous.  She ranted on about how I'm going to hell that I'm a bad influnence on her sons.  I hate it when she uses that term about my brothers, as though I'm somesort of pariah.

The only people who know and basically don't give a damn are my uncle, who is a sort of neo-pagan, and the pastor the the Christian Church my mother attends.  The pastor is very open-minded and does not try to convert me, but actually applauded my being Wiccan due to the constant hatered and misgivings people have about us.  My Unlce suggested to never use the word Wiccan or Wicca again.  How can I not?  If asked what I am, I can't say 'nothing' can I?
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7 years ago  ::  Jun 19, 2008 - 2:00PM #6
Stone_coyote
Posts: 9
[QUOTE=TheWhiteHart;573191]Ah... a pregnant woman during ritual might well feel ill considering the incense clouds that can fill a room. Unfamiliar scents can cause severe nausea.[/QUOTE]

She said that there was no incense, but the 'demonic presence'.  Okay...what part of there is no devil in wicca is not coming through?  I'm not angry at her.  I blame ther early and medival Christian chruches with their scare tactics.  Hopefully the Goddess is teaching them now that we ae not evil.
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7 years ago  ::  Jun 19, 2008 - 3:07PM #7
TheWhiteHart
Posts: 1,634
Hmm. Never been to a ritual without incense burning, but ok. You may have to simply bide your time until you are in a better position. Others might have better ideas.
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6 years ago  ::  Jul 02, 2008 - 9:01AM #8
CreakyHedgewitch
Posts: 1,244
Let me try to put the feedback you received within perspective. 

You were hearing the expression of concern. Of course, Wicca has a real history. One that is approximately 80 years old. When one finds anything older than that being claimed, one has moved from the actual history into the speculative, mythological history of Wicca and (Pagan) Witchcraft. These two histories are entwined. They cannot exist without each other. They cannot be properly understood with sound knowledge of both. They are not a Mystery (I am not sure how you ended up at that conclusion but history is history). And IMO, labelling the mythological as the actual or visa versa, disempowers both as well as the one learning to do so.
All too often, courses like books or someone teaching a history of Wicca (who sincerely believes what they teach is genuine) are based on the body of published mythological history that is promoted as also being the real history. The student often ends up with an emotional investment that he or she will find cannot be defended, proved or historically supported. Knowing both histories, it is very difficult to watch someone go that route and given how prevalent this kind of teaching tends to be, any offering is suspect until it has been proven to be based on more than the mythological. So please take the concern offered for what it was meant to be. A very simple test of the online course you found. If it claims that Wicca itself and/or Wiccan(Pagan) Witchcraft is ancient/older than circa 1930’s, you are dealing with the mythological history as actual history.

Please also understand that what is being expressed is not elitist or an attitude. It is simply an expression of the reality of the evolution of the Religion of Wicca.

Wicca – as it was conceived and meant to be practised – was never meant for the masses. A mystery religion isn't meant to be universalistic. That is why Christianity ceased to be a mystery religion as it was originally conceived to be. Now the Eleusian Mysteries probably come closest to being open and accessible to anyone but also keep in mind the smaller numbers involved, the singular cultural context and so.
Personal variations and water-down versions of Wicca have been published since the 60’s and popularised. These obviously can’t and don’t include the oathbound material that is passed down in lineaged transmission or the preparatory teaching to experience the specific Mysteries of Wicca. These can’t be the mystery religion that Wicca was meant to be because these versions are supposed to be universalist, accessible to anyone who wants to learn. Now there are people using what is publicly accessible that are able to craft a profound relationship to the Gods and strong personal practices based on what is recognised as the core beliefs. They are recognisable as Wiccans. What accessible sources cannot teach anyone however is the full experience of what it was and is meant to be as Wiccan. To achieve this, it was and it remains necessary to be taught within the lineaged Traditions in order to be prepared for and to experience those specific Mysteries. To those who have been properly taught (and who teach others), it may perhaps seem like watching a seeker sincerely desire to cross the narrow bridge to experience the Mysteries. Only to see the seeker detoured away by an easier and accessible path labelled ‘the real Wicca is for everyone’ that will lead he or she somewhere else. Knowing that only the few will ever have the courage and persistence to cross that bridge (as is supposed to happen in a mystery faith) doesn’t make a trained Wiccan any less compassionate when encountering the majority of those seeking that end up on a detour.

Only you can decide if you can find what you are truly seeking and where. Whether striving to go across the narrow bridge or going down one of the detours works best for you. What you don't have the right to change however is how the Religion was meant to be or how it was meant (and does) function.

C.H.
No one cares how much you know until they know how much you care.
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6 years ago  ::  Jul 03, 2008 - 8:12AM #9
CreakyHedgewitch
Posts: 1,244
I’m very glad that this school is both read-read-read- and don’t believe everything you read – oriented.

Just take the concerns expressed from whence such comes, consider why it is being expressed and then do what you are doing, strive to learn from whatever sources (or courses) you are pursuing.

I’ve been recommending TOTM (Triumph of the Moon) for years now, both on this forum and elsewhere. Mine resides in a bookcase within easy reach. Reading it for the first time did indeed change my ‘take’ on things. I haven't managed as yet to get read through his extensive bibilography but I'm working on it.

If these books arn’t on your reading list (and you haven’t already read them), try Hutton’s “Stations of the Sun” and his “Witches, Druids and King Arthur”. A rather limp title the latter but it is a follow-up to a number of subjects he only touched on in TOTM. SOTS is his research into the origins of all British celebrations including the Sabbats.

C.H.
No one cares how much you know until they know how much you care.
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6 years ago  ::  Jul 07, 2008 - 8:59AM #10
CreakyHedgewitch
Posts: 1,244
[QUOTE=Rockin' on;607011]Thx ..It is an excellent book(Triumpth of the moon)..my other(first choice on list) is A witchs Bible(Janet & Stuart Farrar) Spiral Dance(Starhawk)although I know she isnt a fave of yours,THAT book is supposed to be an important piecw,oe worth checking out..of course I have a long list,but I will add your ASAP..Thx so much....Rockin' On[/QUOTE]

A Witches Bible should definitely be a necessary read for Wiccans while keeping in mind that it still contains only public portions of the Religion.

The only issue I have ever had about Starhawk is in relation to the Religion of Wicca. Starhawk isn't Wiccan and her books are not about that religion.  She uses the term Wicca eclectically and uniquely, which only adds to the confusion of those who have not yet researched the bigger picture/context. That said, Spiral Dance was and is a pivotal book within the history of the Paganism Movement or to paraphrase Mike Nichol's, “Before Spiral Dance, there was the Old Guard Pagans. After Spiral Dance, there was both Old and New Guard Pagans.”  It should be read but it should also be read as it was meant to be, as part of the Women’s Spirituality Movement (early 70’s – now). WSM is the framework I belong within and Spiral Dance was one of the first books I ever read back in the early 80's. Dianicism, Dianic Paganism, Feminist Spirituality, Feminist Witchcraft, Goddess Spirituality, all of these and more evolved out of the WSM. Much of Starhawk’s other writings stem from these same roots although Reclaiming is a Feminist Witchcraft Religion that includes men.  The religion I belong to from within WSM is women-only as well as goddess-only. I have had the pleasure of meeting Starhawk back in the 90’s in a WSM weekend workshop and I have great respect for the entirety of what she had accomplished and her role in the modern Paganism Movement.  However, I also don’t agree with everything she does, stands for or believes in, including what she labels as being Wicca.

There have been two re-issues of Spiral Dance over the decades so you might wish to check to see which one you have/get.


C.H.
No one cares how much you know until they know how much you care.
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