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Switch to Forum Live View Curious about "saved"
6 years ago  ::  May 07, 2008 - 10:41PM #61
birwin4
Posts: 570
[QUOTE=AndyF;483430]

birwin4 wrote:



Sounds good to me.
Do you think there are spiritual truths that are not contained in the Bible (found in other sources)?[/QUOTE]

What I do think is that spiritual truths are found in many cultures. Most are either repeated in the Bible or referred to by implication. I think that in all human beings there remains elements of God's image and so any thinking person will recognise truth as it comes to him or her. The Bible refers to this knowledge of truth in Paul's words in Romans 1:19 'For what can be known about God  is plain to them, for God has revealed it to them.' This was written about all ethnic groups and cultures.Again I would assert that all truth is God's truth wherever it is found.

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6 years ago  ::  May 08, 2008 - 9:37AM #62
AndyF
Posts: 375

TalithaKuom wrote:

The Osiris myth isn't a perfect parallel.



I don't think it needs to be.  The basics are there, and the stories are altered (intentionally and unintentionally) over time to make them more meaningful for the current time and place.  For example, our modern "Star Wars" myths were heavily influenced by a 1958 Japanese film called "The Hidden Fortress", and Disney's "The Lion King" comes from "Kimba, the White Lion".


I'm trying to demonstrate the problems with the comparison. I'll get back to you on the anthropologists' and mythographers' names. Not having a head for names, I'll have to make a library run.



OK...I only bring up this point because I've found groups like the BAA (Biblical Archaeological Association) who's mission statement (which includes multiple Biblical quotes) informs us that their goal is to confirm the Bible.  I find their methods to be questionable at best.

God isn't pleased by the death of any. Why should He be? I would argue that anyone who kills another human being, created in God's image, in Christ's Name or any others', doesn't know the Living God.



My interpretation of the OT would say that that God is not necessarily pleased, but doesn't hold back on the killing (the Flood, Sodom  & Gomorrah, plaguing the Egyptians,   instructing the Israelites to execute male enemies, earth quakes and poisoning food supplies for complaining about how tiring mana is or making a statue, the tower of Babel, instructions to stone people...etc etc etc...

I'd be really nitpicky if I asked you about killing in self defense or in cases of war, but why were so many conservative Christians originally supporting the war in Iraq? (I did too in the beginning).

You seem to imply that 1. faith is the MEANS of salvation and 2. that we're saved by faith to the exclusion of works.



This is how things were explained to me by another Evangelical outside of this thread (and had several scriptural quotations to defend her position).  In this case, I have two faithful people and two different interpretations.    Let me cash in on this...

I don't think this is at all true, but suppose one of the two of you (just for the sake of argument) is actually an agent of Satan trying to sway me from the true path.  If I am deceived into believing the wrong path, then would I still be hell-bound?

I shouldn't have to point out that pagans burned Christians at the stake for refusing to acknowledge other deities.



I think it might have been more for political than religious reasons in many cases, but I don't think there is any denying early Christian persecution (and horrible persecution in some areas outside the US).

...

There was a movie about a year ago about Wilberforce...it was very good, but can't think of the title at the moment.

No disagreement that many laws and progressive social reform were pushed by Christians.  At the same time, some people used the Bible to justify slavery (as I'm sure you know, the OT describes rules for owning slaves -I believe in Leviticus).  Also at the same time, anti-slavery (for one example) can't really be classified as strictly a Christian concept.

Certainly, lying, lust, jealousy, and adultery are going to get people into trouble and is good advice.  (Although I think a little lust is harmless, it can get dangerous really fast).  Stealing and murder are already illegal so no problem there.  I don't see any reason to honor your parents if they were abusive, but in general, not a bad idea.  But it's the idol and "no other gods" commandment that we don't like to see in courtrooms and public schools because we feel it is a government endorsement.  I would not like to see it become illegal to have idols (which I use for decoration, not for ritual), and other gods.

You charge that conservatives are ONLY opposed to homosexual marriage because the Bible teaches that homosexual acts are wrong.



I've never heard a non-Biblical reason for being opposed other than something like it will cost the tax payers more money (which is not still not a reason to deny certain rights). Actually, that's not entirely true, I met one person who was a very conservative non-Christian who opposed same sex marriages, but never told me the reason.

And don't know about you, but this Massachusetts Republican doesn't appreciate being told what I think.



My apologies, I did not mean to impose a stereotype.  But in my experience, I have little else to go on.  I would be very interested in your opinion on the opposition of homosexuality that is not based on the Bible (even if it strays a bit off topic).

Anywhoo, Christians condemn homosexual behavior. We also condemn pedophilia and polygamy. (Pedophilia, if you recall, was not only legal in the ancient Greco-Roman world, it was encouraged.) If fact, Judeo-Christian disapproval is the only reason pedophilia and polygamy are illegal in this country and not in others.
Peace of Christ!



I sure the vast majority of people day (regardless of religion or cultural background) oppose polygamy and pedophilia.   Like many moral and ethical issues, I'm not convinced it necessarily stems from the Bible.

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5 years ago  ::  Mar 16, 2009 - 5:04AM #63
he'salive
Posts: 40

Apr 9, 2008 -- 8:32AM, AndyF wrote:

I appreciate the respones... 

Anesis wrote:

Andy, I believe that being saved is a yes/no condition, which begins with an initial, sincere sorrow, which leads to repentance for our sins.... So in my opinion, salvation begins with the initial sorrow and repentance, but is continued throughout our lives as we work to put on the character if Christ and to walk in obedience to the principles he has laid out for us in the Bible.


I think I understand...it's more than just "OK, I believe it, so now I'm saved".  It sounds like once a person is saved, it's also something that requires an effort to maintain.  Would it be safe to say that one can lose salvation? 

Emotionally, the experience simply encouraged me. There were no physical manifestations or changes, but I sure slept well that night! There was peace in my body that I had never understood before.


I hope it doesn't sound like I am trying to reduce your experience, but is that peaceful feeling something that stays always stays with you or when directly communing with God?  Is it every time you commune, or just sometimes?



 


For me...the peace is there always... just knowing that no matter what arises, he will be there to guide me through.  That is the peace

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3 years ago  ::  Oct 01, 2011 - 3:14PM #64
trudging
Posts: 159

Mar 16, 2009 -- 5:04AM, he'salive wrote:


Apr 9, 2008 -- 8:32AM, AndyF wrote:

I appreciate the respones...

Anesis wrote:

Andy, I believe that being saved is a yes/no condition, which begins with an initial, sincere sorrow, which leads to repentance for our sins.... So in my opinion, salvation begins with the initial sorrow and repentance, but is continued throughout our lives as we work to put on the character if Christ and to walk in obedience to the principles he has laid out for us in the Bible.


I think I understand...it's more than just "OK, I believe it, so now I'm saved". It sounds like once a person is saved, it's also something that requires an effort to maintain. Would it be safe to say that one can lose salvation?

Emotionally, the experience simply encouraged me. There were no physical manifestations or changes, but I sure slept well that night! There was peace in my body that I had never understood before.


I hope it doesn't sound like I am trying to reduce your experience, but is that peaceful feeling something that stays always stays with you or when directly communing with God? Is it every time you commune, or just sometimes?



 


For me...the peace is there always... just knowing that no matter what arises, he will be there to guide me through.  That is the peace





I would add, beside regret for sins and repenting, there must be restitution for harm done.


Being sorry, confessing , saying 10 hail Mary's and throwing a couple of bucks in the collection plate wouldn't have done much for me. Heck, that described my life when it was hell. Direct amends along with restitution was what caused my spiritual awakening. I knew I had been changed because I stopped doing what I had always done. My thinking changed, I was no longer afraid of the world.


 


Regarding Abraham being tested by God, I don't agree with the interpretations on that.


God doesn't have a communication problem but we have a comprehension problem, God said a son must die, Abraham got it wrong and thought God told him "kill your son".


Abraham didn't write so it is 3rd person after a long trail of word of mouth.


The bible authors are human and humans make mistakes. God was right, but it took a few hundred years until Jesus came along and recognized what God had meant, A son must die. Not YOUR son must die. That would go against the nature of God.

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