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Switch to Forum Live View Not sure I can call myself Christian. . . . .
5 years ago  ::  Feb 29, 2008 - 2:20PM #1
ClearGreen
Posts: 29
It was a bit of a surprise to me, . . . perhaps it should have been, . . . that the test (The Religion Test) I took listed the religion that I'm currently in (the church I go to) as #22 on the list.  Neo Pagan was the top, along with a few other religions that I'm unaware of.  I'm not sure what all this means.  Having my "protestant Christian" faith at #22 doesn't really surprise me much, though.  I've recently found myself in a quagmire of doubt and questions about many of the church's main doctrinal stances, and would have to say that I can no longer call myself a Christian. 

Now, I say that and a concern comes over me because I've been in Christianity all my life (going on 40 years of age) and know well of the teachings that "demons deceive people away from Jesus" and that those who don't accept Jesus fully will find themselves in "The Lake of Fire", when they die, . . . existing there with a "God given physical, yet indestructable fleshly body" for all eternity.  That's a scary prospect, if I'm wrong. 

Yet, I have to wonder how great and all loving such a being could be if such a Hell WERE created, knowing that billions would suffer there based solely on decisions made on earth!  Some have been born into another religious culture.  Some don't see any evidence of the spiritual, and DO see evidence that contradicts what the Bible says.

I've also been feeling a bit of a pull (and am not certain from where, or where it may go) away from a Patriarchical religion who is "masculine", . . . . .when you have to have aspects of the feminine as well.  In Christianity, doctrine teaches "God the Father", "God the Son", and "God the Holy Spirit".  All of them called "he".  I started wondering, . . . "where does the feminine traits come from"?   There would be calls of blasphemy to even hint at a female God(dess), though the Holy Spirit was given the name "Sophia".  Yet, church leaders would respond angrily if you said "I heard from the Holy Spirit, and SHE told me . . . . . . . . ". 

One final thought.  One of the MAJOR concepts of Christianity is that all these three "persons" are still just ONE God entity.  I think men HAD to keep their religion monotheistic, and these distinct beings mess up that doctrine, so they had to create some fantastical, unexplainable "thing" called the Trinity that has "three persons but one God". 

I know I'm rambling here a bit.  If you have any thoughts, feel free to reply.  I know that many of you believe in feminine deities. .  . . . . . . . the thought of such things really doesn't offend me and I really wouldn't mind it.
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5 years ago  ::  Mar 02, 2008 - 9:35AM #2
CLHazz
Posts: 94
Hi, I just took the belief-o-matic quiz, that's twice now in 2 weeks, I've taken it several times before. Neo Pagan is listed as either one or two. I know I am not christian any longer as I reject what I was taught(born and raised Catholic) Paganism fits me, my personality, but how does one practice paganism when (a) you live in your parents house(b) don't have any metaphysical stores, or any credit (c) don't drive and (d) don't know anyone around who can possibly relate to you.  What do you need to practice paganism by yourself and without drawing attention to yourself in this christian world in which we are living in? I think that quiz is right on, I just don't know where to turn, what to do next. How can one be pagan at heart while not being able to practice it? Thanks.
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5 years ago  ::  Mar 02, 2008 - 9:55AM #3
Sacrificialgoddess
Posts: 9,496

CLHazz wrote:

Hi, I just took the belief-o-matic quiz, that's twice now in 2 weeks, I've taken it several times before. Neo Pagan is listed as either one or two. I know I am not christian any longer as I reject what I was taught(born and raised Catholic) Paganism fits me, my personality, but how does one practice paganism when (a) you live in your parents house(b) don't have any metaphysical stores, or any credit (c) don't drive and (d) don't know anyone around who can possibly relate to you.  What do you need to practice paganism by yourself and without drawing attention to yourself in this christian world in which we are living in? I think that quiz is right on, I just don't know where to turn, what to do next. How can one be pagan at heart while not being able to practice it? Thanks.




Well, paganism doesn't actually require any of the doodads one finds at metaphysical stores.  It requires your gods.  That is it.  And you have us, now, don't you.  Feel free to ask any question that comes to mind, either here or on the Main pagan board.  I would actually suggest the main board over this one.  The main board gets more traffic.  And be sure to stop by the Cup and Chalice and have a virtual drink with us.  We would be glad to have you. 
But you guys also need to keep in mind that the Belief'o'matic is a joke as quizzes go.  It pigeon-holes people a bit to much in my opinion. There are several questions that for me can only be answered with "none of the above," and it keeps trying to label me a Quaker.  Just don't let it decide who you are. Read.  A lot.  Buy a notebook and write down all your beliefs.  Talk to folks here.  You will be more secure in your beliefs for it than you would if you just let the test decide for you.

Dark Energy. It can be found in the observable Universe. Found in ratios of 75% more than any other substance. Dark Energy. It can be found in religious extremists, in cheerleaders. To come to the conclusion that Dark signifies mean and malevolent would define 75% of the Universe as an evil force. Alternatively, to think that some cheerleaders don't have razors in their snatch is to be foolishly unarmed.

-- Tori Amos
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5 years ago  ::  Mar 02, 2008 - 5:33PM #4
CLHazz
Posts: 94
[QUOTE=sacrificialgoddess;326737]Well, paganism doesn't actually require any of the doodads one finds at metaphysical stores.  It requires your gods.  That is it.  And you have us, now, don't you.  Feel free to ask any question that comes to mind, either here or on the Main pagan board.  I would actually suggest the main board over this one.  The main board gets more traffic.  And be sure to stop by the Cup and Chalice and have a virtual drink with us.  We would be glad to have you. 
But you guys also need to keep in mind that the Belief'o'matic is a joke as quizzes go.  It pigeon-holes people a bit to much in my opinion. There are several questions that for me can only be answered with "none of the above," and it keeps trying to label me a Quaker.  Just don't let it decide who you are. Read.  A lot.  Buy a notebook and write down all your beliefs.  Talk to folks here.  You will be more secure in your beliefs for it than you would if you just let the test decide for you.[/QUOTE]
Thank you for the input. I will do just that write down my beliefs. And knowing I don't need all the pharanalia of paganism is nice. That needing just the gods is enough. Where exactly would I find the main thread? Dumb question probably but I feel like I need someone to point me in the right direction. Taking that quiz with a grain of salt is good advice. What I am learning is that you can only take so much from what you read and whom you talk to is also going to be different(big duh there). Learning to listen to yourself and what you feel in your heart is...more important, what is true to the person than any outside source. So again thanks.
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5 years ago  ::  Mar 02, 2008 - 5:39PM #5
CLHazz
Posts: 94
Oh and one more thing. Yeah I do have people who I can talk to, though it's here on the web only, not anyone that I know face to face here in my place in the country. So as far as interests go and beliefs go, you guys here-are people I can go to with out any uneasy feelings.
My spiritual journey of self discovery is back in full swing now. :)
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5 years ago  ::  Mar 02, 2008 - 7:09PM #6
CreakyHedgewitch
Posts: 1,244
Clear Green,

The Quiz is based on generic answers to questions being slotted into generic categories so at best, it indicates a place to start exploring because certain beliefs you have may be held by others. As SG pointed out, it should never pigeon-hole anyone.

So, let me start by saying that Neo-Paganism isn’t a religion. The best way to think of it is as a broad modern spectrum under which many diverse things have been labelled as being NP and to which individuals self-identify and then self-define what works for them from within that diversity. Being NP is almost always experiential, in other words, validation is from within, not from the second-hand opinions of other self-identified NPs or from third-hand opinions of authors of books and websites on the subject.

You may find personal answers to your questions about Christianity within that diversity or you may not. It may be that the questions you have asked cannot be approached let alone answered for you outside of a Christian framework. You might also wish to explore the lesser known forms of Christianity such as Gnosticism, where you will encounter the Holy Spirit as Sophia for example. 

The belief in or concept of the Divine as Feminine is not copyrighted to NP or any spectrum, belief system or even culture. If you would like an historical look back about the Feminine Divine, try THE MYTH OF THE GODDESS, EVOLUTION OF AN IMAGE, by Anne Baring and Jules Cashford. Written by two female scholars, it is a superb journey through the imagery of the Goddess/Feminine Divine from Palaeolithic times to the past century. No mention about the Feminine Divine within modern NP in that book. However, there are today many publications available on that subject if you are interested including about the modern NP Trinity of the Maiden, Mother and Crone.

C.H.
No one cares how much you know until they know how much you care.
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5 years ago  ::  Mar 02, 2008 - 7:10PM #7
CreakyHedgewitch
Posts: 1,244
[QUOTE=CLHazz;326706]Hi, I just took the belief-o-matic quiz, that's twice now in 2 weeks, I've taken it several times before. Neo Pagan is listed as either one or two. I know I am not christian any longer as I reject what I was taught(born and raised Catholic) Paganism fits me, my personality, but how does one practice paganism when (a) you live in your parents house(b) don't have any metaphysical stores, or any credit (c) don't drive and (d) don't know anyone around who can possibly relate to you.  What do you need to practice paganism by yourself and without drawing attention to yourself in this christian world in which we are living in? I think that quiz is right on, I just don't know where to turn, what to do next. How can one be pagan at heart while not being able to practice it? Thanks.[/QUOTE]


I have probably addressed some of your questions in the other thread. However, my short answers (which SG has already mentioned) would be, (a) respectfully, (b) unnecessary, (c) neither do I and I’ve been Pagan for 25+ years, and (d) one can practice alone or by consensus with others. In order to practice at all, to practice by oneself, you need to self-define what NP means to you. This can include a core definition of the Divine (NP’s tend to be polytheists but not always) out of which the structure of one’s practice evolves. This may include a celebratory annual calendar such as a personalised version of the Wheel of the Year with underlying symbolism that is meaningful to you. It often includes a daily enactment of some kind, for example a silent prayer or a meditative walk or doing a ritual in the shower or tub if privacy is an issue. An individual practice also should involve aligning to and understanding one’s ethics, embracing some kind of moral guidelines and spiritual principles (there is a diversity out there called NP that usually includes self-responsibility) and not least, striving to live the most positive and fulfilling life one can envision. None of which has to involve drawing attention to oneself if one uses common sense, courtesy and respect towards others. Including those whose Christian framework may validate alternate definitions and place limitations on their understanding and tolerance. 

C.H.
No one cares how much you know until they know how much you care.
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5 years ago  ::  Mar 06, 2008 - 9:25PM #8
CLHazz
Posts: 94
[QUOTE=CreakyHedgewitch;327937]I have probably addressed some of your questions in the other thread. However, my short answers (which SG has already mentioned) would be, (a) respectfully, (b) unnecessary, (c) neither do I and I’ve been Pagan for 25+ years, and (d) one can practice alone or by consensus with others. In order to practice at all, to practice by oneself, you need to self-define what NP means to you. This can include a core definition of the Divine (NP’s tend to be polytheists but not always) out of which the structure of one’s practice evolves. This may include a celebratory annual calendar such as a personalised version of the Wheel of the Year with underlying symbolism that is meaningful to you. It often includes a daily enactment of some kind, for example a silent prayer or a meditative walk or doing a ritual in the shower or tub if privacy is an issue. An individual practice also should involve aligning to and understanding one’s ethics, embracing some kind of moral guidelines and spiritual principles (there is a diversity out there called NP that usually includes self-responsibility) and not least, striving to live the most positive and fulfilling life one can envision. None of which has to involve drawing attention to oneself if one uses common sense, courtesy and respect towards others. Including those whose Christian framework may validate alternate definitions and place limitations on their understanding and tolerance. 

C.H.[/QUOTE]
Thanks for your input and suggestions, I really appreciate it. This has been an on-again/ off-again...thought on my mind. First religion and spirituality will be be on my mind a lot, then, it'll take a back seat. I can't tell whether this interest is an obession because I am prone to obsessing due to my disabilty(if you are curious it's either mild ADD or mild Asperger's or both, I try to not bring that up first  when I talk on line, I have not been formally diagnosed with really anything else but Cerebal Palsy, very mild and a disability in math, all of my 30 years) I digress, back to the topic at hand if it's an on/off obsession of mine, an strong interest in NP or if it's really the right path for me and my life in this current moment.  Any thoughts on this?
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5 years ago  ::  Mar 07, 2008 - 2:25PM #9
CLHazz
Posts: 94
Hi C. H. I just read your reply in the other forum, so there really isn't a need for answering this past post. If it's the way for me then I will find a way if I am serious about it with or without have numerous disabilities. I usually don't disclose this information to people that I have never met. It's not something that I routinely share because of the fear that I will be seen a somewhat unfair light. Nevertheless have those disabilities is part of my overall "puzzle" if you will. I am an enigma to other people who are trying to help me in my life.. Sometimes my various disabilities does get me down, feel down. Then I am reminded of how far I've come and how I've compensated for my challenges. It's a big part of my idenitity that I still am getting comfortable with. Sorry this is long and way off topic, but I am just going with the flow of my thoughts right now and this just happens to be what's on my mind at the moment. I have some journal entries on what it's like to live with a disability or in my case various disabilities. Feel free to read them.
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5 years ago  ::  Mar 13, 2008 - 2:42PM #10
One_World
Posts: 289
Clear Green - I recently went through such a discovery myself. Maybe not so much a discovery as a beginning point to great exploration. I've begun rejecting more and more of the 'traditional' Christian teachings but that shred of Catholic guilt is still hanging with me. Spirituality is as free of boundaries and labels as you want...this is something I've been working on learning and understanding. I still know nothing at all, but I feel enriched on the journey. Listen to your heart---it's right. If turning away from traditional Christianity is what feels right to you, do it and know that your inner voice is finally being heard.

CLHazz - Don't worry at all about any of those points...your true nature will reveal itself to you and it's for you to explore in as personal a way as you feel fit. I don't have a label for myself, but I do know that life is too short to worry about presenting my beliefs to others for their scrutiny. CreakyHedgewitch (as always) said it best...paganism is what you make of it and approaching your family respectfully is always best. The various acoutrements that go along with being a pagan are not as important as your own relationship with the gods. You have access to the internet, that's a great starting point. This beliefnet community has provided so much guidance for me in a short period of time...some very friendly and helpful folks here.
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars ~ Oscar Wilde
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