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10 years ago  ::  Jan 09, 2008 - 7:47AM #1
luvsthesky
Posts: 12
Does anyone have any true evidence that ghosts are not real?  Any scriptures to back it up?  I have always been 'taught' that ghosts are just demons.  But I want to move beyond what I've been 'taught' to true evidence and proof.
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10 years ago  ::  Jan 09, 2008 - 8:38AM #2
Jupiter
Posts: 99
IMHO, whether they are true or not, they are irrelevant to a person of Faith - one who puts their attention on what really matters- a relationship with the Divine.
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10 years ago  ::  Jan 10, 2008 - 7:03AM #3
luvsthesky
Posts: 12
[QUOTE=Jupiter;200018]IMHO, whether they are true or not, they are irrelevant to a person of Faith - one who puts their attention on what really matters- a relationship with the Divine.[/QUOTE]

Dear Jupiter:  I completely understand what you are saying.  HOWEVER, my mother, who is a devout Christian woman has had things happen in her home......right after my father died.  Perhaps these 'earth things' are not important in the scheme of eternity and a Christian's ministry here on earth, but things happen to us that raise questions, and I want to know what the word says about it.  I will not accept 'pat answers' as I have been fed my entire life. 

What I would like are answers from educated Christians.  Sensible, word-founded answers.  That is why I joined beliefnet.

Don't worry, Jupiter, I will stay grounded.
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10 years ago  ::  Jan 11, 2008 - 2:00PM #4
TalithaKuom
Posts: 556
Shabbat Shalom!
It's possible, luvsthesky. I've never seen a ghost, but that doesn't mean they're not there. I have to agree with Jupiter, though, that ghosts are irrelevent.
Peace of Christ!
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10 years ago  ::  Jan 23, 2008 - 4:19PM #5
spudette
Posts: 959
Dear Luvsthesky: Most people who believe that ghosts are real believe that they are the "immortal soul" of people who have died. The best way to answer your question is to find out what the Bible says about these things. first of all, the Bible doesn't teach that people have an immortal soul, a part of them that somehow survives death. The word "soul" is indeed used often in the Bible, but never is it said that the soul is immortal.
1 Tim 1:16-17
17 Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory forever and ever. Amen.
NAS
The above quote is the only one in the whole Bible that uses the term "immortal".
Now,let's go to the book of Genesis to see what the Bible says about the soul: A good rule when you look for information from the Bible is to find the first time the word or concept is used.
Gen 2:7
7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
KJV
Other translations say "living being", and have a marginal note that says "or living soul". So from the description of the creation of humanity, we see that people don't HAVE a soul, they ARE souls. A common usage of the term soul is found in the emergency signal "S.O.S", which stands for "Save Our Souls" When people aboard a ship or airplane in trouble call for help, don't you think that they want their lives to be saved? Of course, they do.
Now, let's find out what the Bible says about what happens when people die.
Eccl 12:7
7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
KJV
Here is the translation of the word "spirit" in Strong's Concordance:
OT:7307
ruwach (roo'-akh); from OT:7306; wind; by resemblance breath, i.e. a sensible (or even violent) exhalation; figuratively, life, anger, unsubstantiality; by extension, a region of the sky; by resemblance spirit, but only of a rational being (including its expression and functions):


KJV - air, anger, blast, breath, X cool, courage, mind, X quarter, X side, spirit ([-ual]), tempest, X vain, ([whirl-]) wind (-y).
(Biblesoft's New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. Copyright (c) 1994, Biblesoft and International Bible Translators, Inc.)
The only word of translation that fits what we are looking for is "breath". So when we die, our bodies return to dust, and our breath returns to God Who gave it. There is no part of us that survives death. The formula God used to create Man is ; DUST + BREATH OF LIFE = LIVING SOUL. So, logically, the opposite of the life formula would be: LIVING SOUL - BREATH OF LIFE = DUST.
It takes those two components to make a human being, and when one is missing, there is no more human being.
This is very difficult for us to accept when we have been taught that our so-called soul goes straight to heaven when we die (or to the other place). But if you'll bear with me, I will show you that God's way is really best.
Ps 146:3-4
3 Put not your trust in princes, nor in the son of man, in whom there is no help.

4 His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish.
KJV
Eccl 9:5-6
5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.

6 Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun.
KJV
Now, here comes the wonderful part, that tells you that there is hope for us, that God will indeed bring us back to life:
John 11:11-14
11 These things said he: and after that he saith unto them, Our friend Lazarus sleepeth; but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep.
12 Then said his disciples, Lord, if he sleep, he shall do well.
13 Howbeit Jesus spake of his death: but they thought that he had spoken of taking of rest in sleep.
14 Then said Jesus unto them plainly, Lazarus is dead.
KJV
Now, the question is, When willJesus restore people to life? Here it is:
1 Thess 4:15-17
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
KJV

If we are already in heaven, how could Jesus raise us up again when He returns?
Now, there is one scripture that people use when they want to teach that people go straight to heaven at death: that is what they think Jesus said to the thief who was crucified wit Him:
Luke 23:43
43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.
KJV
The problem with that is that Jesus didn't go to heaven on Friday, the day He died. How do we know this ?
John 20:17-18
17 Jesus said to her, "Stop clinging to Me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father; but go to My brethren, and say to them, 'I ascend to My Father and your Father, and My God and your God.'" 18 Mary Magdalene came, announcing to the disciples, "I have seen the Lord," and that He had said these things to her.
NAS
This was on Sunday morning, when the women returned to the grave to prepare Jesus' body for burial. Jesus doesn't lie, so we know that the other man couldn't be "with Jesus in Paradise" on Friday evening. The reason for the misunderstanding is that in the original language of the Bible, there was no punctuation. so the translators added punctuation marks where they thought appropriate, and sometimes they made mistakes. This is one of the times.
Now, if there is no soul of dead people in heaven or anywhere else, how can they come back to talk to living people? The only conclusion we can come to is that demons, or evil spirits who want us to disbelieve God, pretend to be our departed loved ones.
I hope this quick study helps you understand what you were taught, my friend.
God bless you.
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10 years ago  ::  Jan 25, 2008 - 8:33PM #6
smc93
Posts: 200
[QUOTE=luvsthesky;199973]Does anyone have any true evidence that ghosts are not real?  Any scriptures to back it up?  I have always been 'taught' that ghosts are just demons.  But I want to move beyond what I've been 'taught' to true evidence and proof.[/QUOTE]



"true evidence"

?
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10 years ago  ::  Jan 25, 2008 - 9:25PM #7
smc93
Posts: 200
You were doing so well, validating ideas with Bible verses and all, until this comment:

"The only conclusion we can come to is that demons, or evil spirits who want us to disbelieve God, pretend to be our departed loved ones."

Right out of thin air, was that one.  Oh my goodness!  One partial verse would do nicely now...!
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10 years ago  ::  Jan 25, 2008 - 10:06PM #8
smc93
Posts: 200
[QUOTE=luvsthesky;199973]Does anyone have any true evidence that ghosts are not real?  Any scriptures to back it up?  I have always been 'taught' that ghosts are just demons.  But I want to move beyond what I've been 'taught' to true evidence and proof.[/QUOTE]


Hi luvsthesky,

Of course 'ghost' is an English word that translates a Greek or Hebrew word, a word (or words) attached to a Greek or Hebrew concept.  Once we get behind all the baggage associated with an English concept and we study the actual Hebrew and Greek concepts... they correspond more to psychic phenomena that humans have always had... related to the chemical structure of the human brain.  Human brain chemical action has basically remained static over history; concepts about 'ghosts' have not.  What do you think about this?
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10 years ago  ::  Jan 29, 2008 - 4:41PM #9
sorrowful_mysteries
Posts: 468
A particularly enlightening experience into people's views of ghosts can be had by prowling around all the ghost videos posted on YouTube... Some are cut from actual television programs, others are people's own videos, and so on. But the one thing they all seem to have in common is people being so alienated from the natural world that they resort to interpreting perfectly natural phenomenon as something supernatural.

The worst/best example I watched was a group of "ghost hunters" who were investigated a Revolutionary-era house that had been unoccupied for some 70+ years. When they descended into the windowless brick wine cellar, the camera trained on a mass of swirling matter that looked for all the world like dust ebbing and flowing in the air. The group were excited and amazed, and kept repeating that it couldn't possibly be mist since it didn't feel wet. The real kicker came when someone admitted "this wasn't here the first time we came in the room!"

The list goes on... I don't know how many videos I've seen of light from the camcorder's nightvision reflecting off of dust, strands of spiderweb or the eyes of dogs and cats. People can't even seem to look at low rolling waves in a lake without thinking it must be some kind of undulating, serpentine monster.

So my response is that I've yet to see any evidence whatever of ghosts, and until I see evidence of ghosts, I don't even need to consider the issue theologically.
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10 years ago  ::  Feb 05, 2008 - 4:14PM #10
luvsthesky
Posts: 12
Thanks to all who wrote on this subject.  I do know the scripture verses regarding the soul, the body and that we, as humans, are not immortal.  All I wanted was an explanation for the events that have taken place in my mother's home, etc.  and wondered if anyone else had had similar experiences.  Anyway, God is on the throne, He is in control. 


[QUOTE=WHOAMI!?;263047]God commanded Israel to have nothing to do with necromancing and the like. Newly converted Christains burnt all their "books" on similar reading material in the NT. I just want to take God at His Word and leave it all alone, sorry Jennifer Love Hewitt! :) (Youre still cute as a button though!)[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=sorrowful_mysteries;250136]A particularly enlightening experience into people's views of ghosts can be had by prowling around all the ghost videos posted on YouTube... Some are cut from actual television programs, others are people's own videos, and so on. But the one thing they all seem to have in common is people being so alienated from the natural world that they resort to interpreting perfectly natural phenomenon as something supernatural.

The worst/best example I watched was a group of "ghost hunters" who were investigated a Revolutionary-era house that had been unoccupied for some 70+ years. When they descended into the windowless brick wine cellar, the camera trained on a mass of swirling matter that looked for all the world like dust ebbing and flowing in the air. The group were excited and amazed, and kept repeating that it couldn't possibly be mist since it didn't feel wet. The real kicker came when someone admitted "this wasn't here the first time we came in the room!"

The list goes on... I don't know how many videos I've seen of light from the camcorder's nightvision reflecting off of dust, strands of spiderweb or the eyes of dogs and cats. People can't even seem to look at low rolling waves in a lake without thinking it must be some kind of undulating, serpentine monster.

So my response is that I've yet to see any evidence whatever of ghosts, and until I see evidence of ghosts, I don't even need to consider the issue theologically.[/QUOTE]
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