[QUOTE=PassingTheTest;682413]Hello all,

AP said I should ask this question...

Who is Abaddon?

Also within the same passage we need to ask:
Who are the locust army in Revelation 9 and in the book of Joel?

Peace,
Bob[/QUOTE]

Who is AP? If I may ask.

Thanks, I brought up the page to post my answer and got sidetracked here at work so I didn't see the other insightful answers that were given.  This has been an interesting thread to say the least. However I am glad that the questions were able to be answered.

[QUOTE=PassingTheTest;911814]Hi Newtonian and Bimp,
[QUOTE=Newtonian;902257]
First of all, you are correct AP is AnotherPaul.  We have been debating for a few years now.  I first encountered him on the Touchstone site.


So if the modern day Jehovah's Witnesses is the Lucust Army described in Revelation and Joel, I have couple more questions:

1) What damage do you, the locust army do, that Jehovah has to make compensation for?
2) Who is Jehovah making compensation to?

Peace,
Bob[/QUOTE]

Hi Bob! 

I suggest you read my posts 26 - 29 more carefully because I already answered those questions somewhat. 

I am not going to repost all of that information, but I will add further detail.

Did you understand the various details that were more or less fulfilled in those related destruction to restoration prophecies - including the entire book of Joel? 

It seems not, since you are asking the same question again as if I did not answer.

I’ll help you remember:  what are the 4 destructions in the 3 fulfillments?  And what is the compensation in those 3 fulfillments?

I’ll give you a hint.

1st fulfillment - 2 destructions: 740 BCE; 607 BCE - compensation not to the locusts

2nd fulfillment - 70 CE - compensation to the locusts.

3rd fulfillment - no man knows the day or hour, neither the Son.- compensation to the locusts.

In the first fulfillments the locusts were the invading armies, in the 2nd fulfillment however, the locusts were not the armies doing the destruction - rather the disgusting thing that causes desolation caused the destruction.  In the 3rd fulfillment the locusts again are not doing the destruction - Abaddon means destroyer and Abaddon brings destruction at Armageddon - the locusts are not the angelic armies following the Destroyer on the White horse - see Revelation chapter 19.

The Locusts both in the 2nd and 3rd fulfillments cause torment in advance of the destruction - see the Rich Man and Lazarus parable (Luke 16) for another symbolic application which provides more detail on this torment - if you understand the parable - do you?

The restoration is the compensation.  In the first fulfillment it is easy to understand - simply true worship was restored starting 537 BCE after the 70 years desolation of Jerusalem.  Granted it did not all happen at once - the word to restore and rebuild Jerusalem - the start of the 70 weeks of years of Daniel 9:24-27 - was much later in 455 BCE.

The restoration indicated by the Rich Man and Lazarus parable did not happen all at once either - the money loving Pharisees were indeed tormented by Jesus’ message/expose which was administered by the 1st century locusts - true Christians.  And the restoration involved a spiritual paradise the lowly Jews, like Peter, Andrew, James and John and many others, who were considered like dirt by the Pharisees and who were fed mere scraps of spiritual food by these hypocritical religious leaders - now they were compensated for by entering a spiritual paradise - heavenly in symbolism by comparison to their formerly spiritually sick state.   And these very same locusts continued to torment the hypocritical religious leaders by exposing their hypocrisy and lies.

The destruction of that hypocritical Jewish system was not brought about by these locusts in 70 CE however.

In this 3rd final fulfillment the locusts receive compensation again - as in the case of the second fulfillment it is not those tormented by the locusts that receive the compensation.

As in the Rich Man and Lazarus parable, Revelation 11 shows that the two witnesses are in a sad state dressed in sackcloth and ashes - but then they are restored - invited up to heaven symbolically in that their state is so elevated now that they have been totally released from and are no part of Babylon the Great - that part compares with the first fulfillment in 537 BCE.
That is the spiritual paradise Jehovah’s Witnesses are in today - one aspect of this my wife and I were privileged to experience these last 3 weekends as we built a new Kingdom Hall - all by volunteers motivated by love and working shoulder to shoulder - the result of the pure language as Zephaniah 3:9 foretells.  There are so many ways we are currently compensated.

There is, however, a grander fulfillment of this compensation - grander than what happened in 537 BCE or 33CE or 1919 CE - it is when we enter the antitypical promised land - the New Earth - after Abaddon destroys Satan and his world at Armageddon.

Remember the differences in who the locusts are in 740 BCE; 607 BCE compared with the first century and now - in the first fulfillment those destroyed by the locusts are compensated - in the 2nd and 3rd fulfillments the destroyers are different than the locust who torment - e.g. the plagues of Revelation are administered by the locusts but Armageddon is not.

BTW - you really should get the more basic truths correct before delving into these deeper things - for example - the actual spiritual paradise Jehovah’s Witnesses are now in as compensation for the tribulation they received.

For example - the fulfillment of this wonderful prophecy in these last days is  part of our compensation:

(Isaiah 2:2-4) 2 And it must occur in the final part of the days [that] the mountain of the house of Jehovah will become firmly established above the top of the mountains, and it will certainly be lifted up above the hills; and to it all the nations must stream. 3 And many peoples will certainly go and say: “Come, YOU people, and let us go up to the mountain of Jehovah, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will instruct us about his ways, and we will walk in his paths.” For out of Zion law will go forth, and the word of Jehovah out of Jerusalem. 4 And he will certainly render judgment among the nations and set matters straight respecting many peoples. And they will have to beat their swords into plowshares and their spears into pruning shears. Nation will not lift up sword against nation, neither will they learn war anymore.

What a wonderful privilege to be part of such a loving brotherhood who have overcome all cause for division and are united by love under their King, Jesus Christ - who have succeeded where the UN has failed - to unite people of all nations such that they not only learn war no more but actually love one another!

Hi Newtonian,
[QUOTE=Newtonian;915203]1) What damage do you, the locust army do, that Jehovah has to make compensation for?

1.  In the 2nd and third fulfillments the locusts torment worldly people - in the latter case that torment involves the plagues of Revelation.

Revelation does not prophecy that compensation will be made for those tormented by the locusts - you are confusing the two prophecies involving 3 fulfillments.  Joel contains some details only fulfilled in the first fulfillment - as per my earlier posts this is also the case with Jesus prophecies.

Thanks for the easier read clarification here...

Please read the passage in full context.

Joel 2:25-32
25  And I will make compensation to YOU for the years that the locust, the creeping, unwinged locust, and the cockroach and the caterpillar have eaten, my great military force that I have sent among YOU. 26  And YOU will certainly eat, eating and becoming satisfied, and YOU will be bound to praise the name of Jehovah YOUR God, who has done with YOU so wonderfully; and my people will not be ashamed to time indefinite. 27  And YOU people will have to know that I am in the midst of Israel, and that I am Jehovah YOUR God and there is no other. And my people will not be ashamed to time indefinite.

28 “And after that it must occur that I shall pour out my spirit on every sort of flesh, and YOUR sons and YOUR daughters will certainly prophesy. As for YOUR old men, dreams they will dream. As for YOUR young men, visions they will see. 29 And even on the menservants and on the maidservants in those days I shall pour out my spirit.

30 “And I will give portents in the heavens and on the earth, blood and fire and columns of smoke. 31 The sun itself will be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the coming of the great and fear-inspiring day of Jehovah. 32 And it must occur that everyone who calls on the name of Jehovah will get away safe; for in Mount Zion and in Jerusalem there will prove to be the escaped ones, just as Jehovah has said, and in among the survivors, whom Jehovah is calling.”

After the compensation does Jehovah promise to darken the sun and turn the moon to blood...  It says that this will happen "before the great fear inspiring day of Jehovah"!  That happens in Revelation...  So this compensation must be fulfilled also.  Therefore your explanation does appear to fit the context.
[QUOTE=Newtonian;915203]2) Who is Jehovah making compensation to?

Now:  In Revelation and Acts: the locusts.   In Joel - those destroyed by the locusts.

In Joel, though, one should realize it was really apostate Israel/Judah that were being destroyed by the locusts while the remnant faithful ones in Israel/Judah were compensated for.  Likewise today the locusts torment apostate Christendom - but there are some in Christendom who come out of Babylon the Great and are compensated by becoming part of the restroration of pure worship.

A better understanding of why the locusts in the later fulfillments are God's people is received when you understand why Cyrus was called Jehovah's anointed one - and the Kings from the rising of the sun are now Jehovah and Jesus - and the locusts under their rule are now God's people.[/QUOTE]
So non-JWs get the compensation.  I have NEVER read anything like this before.  This compensation is also awarded AFTER the locust army is destoyed in the first two minor fulfillments, how do you see this 3rd fulfillment timeline fold out?  Obviously you cannot agree that the 3rd fulfillment (involving today's JWs) get destroyed then God gives out compenation....

Peace,
Bob