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7 years ago  ::  Feb 07, 2008 - 8:01PM #11
SatanicStalker
Posts: 719
Oops... I seem to have missed the "currently suspended." My mistake. Any other takers?

~Stalker
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7 years ago  ::  Feb 09, 2008 - 9:37PM #12
moonprincess7070
Posts: 1
Chya I agree I've always wondered about this religion, though I'm good with Shinto right now. *^_^* XD I'm sorry to ask this but all of the church leaders(used to be catholic then Christian) always harped that this was a religion based on pessimistic values (of course in much harsher words) So...does some form of universal peace and good exist in your religion? and what are the good points of Lucifer?
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7 years ago  ::  Feb 13, 2008 - 1:05AM #13
SatanicStalker
Posts: 719
Your inquiries are well recieved, and this is the proper place for them. My references to "secret" rituals were actually just sarcastic remarks aimed at cultresearcher, who seemed to believe that we do secret rituals, which we do not (in fact, much of that post was sarcastic, forgive me for confusing you).

Satanism is by no means a single coherant system. There are two main branches, Traditional Satanism, which generally speaking takes a literal being that they call Satan or something similar as their god. These are the minority, but there are a handful here on beliefnet who could explain more. The other branch is Modern, or Atheistic, Satanism. I am a Modern Satanist. We tend to believe that there is no literal being called Satan, but rather Satan is a symbol for something we believe. We, generally, follow no gods (hence "atheistic") although some of us do believe in the existance of gods (I do), we don't worship them.

Again, one of the most important points to make is that every Satanist has a different idea of exactly what Satanism is. I can explain what it is to me, which generalizes okay but certainly not perfectly. Here goes.

I believe that I am the surpreme authority in my life. I worship myself as god. This doesn't mean I think I'm a god over anyone else, just over myself. Satan, for me, is symbolic of the decision to regect an external supreme authority and to be my own authority. I believe that selfishness is good and natural way to be, and that every being is inherantly selfish, but that many people cause themselves great guilt over this and stress because they deny this aspect of themselves and try to lie to themselves about their own selfish tendencies.

Anything that anyone does can be justified from an argument of selfishness. I clean my mother's bathroom without her having to ask, I do volunteer work, and I make my boyfriend soup when he's sick, All of these are selfish in origin. I like to use a clean bathroom. I like to live in a world where people help one another, in part because sometimes I'm the one needing help, and part because that's just the way I want my world to be. The third is a little harder to explain, even if it feels like the strongest. My "self" is not limitted to my consciousness, or the life that dwells in my body. My "self" extends beyond the simplest definition. It also includes my family, my home, and my loved ones. For any of my loved ones I gladly give anything that I think they need more than I do, because it is really my own self doing the needing. My boyfriend is part of myself. I want him to be comfortable and healthy and taken care of because he's part of me, and it's part of me being taken care of. In fact, this phenomenon is how I personally define "love." Someone or something else which is part of me, an extension of my "self."

So, as you can see, this philosophy is one of extreme individualism, but not one of laziness. As my own god, I have to find purpose for my own life. I have to plan where my life is going, and how best to spend my time and energy. I have to choose my own path. I do not have the luxury of asking some "higher" being to get me out of trouble when I land in it. I am entirely responsible for myself, and I take all consequences for my actions as entirely my own, both positive and negative.

Some people jump on the idea that we believe in selfishness and indulgence and say we must be very negative people, but this really is not true. Only the very foolish think that true selfishness and individuality just mean indulging in whatever quick gratifying whim strikes them. Indulgence is not a bad thing, so long as it does you more good than harm, but it can cause quite a bit of harm if out of control. We view self control as a very major virtue, and addiction as a very major weakness.

We also do not put a blanket ban on vengence. I know first hand from my life before I discovered Satanism that thoughtless forgiveness can cause harm. As a child a bully told me that no one liked me, that people might be nice to me if they felt sorry for me, but no one actually wanted me around. I was hurt by this, of course, but I forgave her, as I had be taught was the right thing to do. But part of me believed that if I had no reason to fight against her words, then they must be true. I believed it for years. I've come a long way since then, but even still occasionally I find myself thinking that way. If I had not forgiven her so quickly, if I had stood up to her back then, I could have saved myself a lot of difficulty.

Of course, in many cases the healthiest thing to do is to forgive, and we do forgive when it is the best thing for us. Vendettas held too long can be just as damaging as any substance addiction.

We tend to value education very highly, and though we encourage polite inquiry about ourselves, we tend to be very critical of willful ignorance and idiocy. We support diversity, believing that everyone is unique and should be themselves, but we are very critical of anyone who seeks to put others down or to take away the rights of others. One of the worst crimes imaginable is to harm an innocent. Though we (and by we I mean I) do not believe that all people are created equal, it is quite clear to us that some people are much better, stronger, smarter, and more powerful than others, we do believe that everyone is entitled to equal rights. Taking away someone else's rights without justification is bad. Justification might be taking away someone's right to bear arms because that person was convicted of a violent crime, for instance.



Some Satanists use ritual as a part of their practice. I personally do not, I find no need of it. Every thing I do is a reinforcement of my beliefs, as I have briefly explained here. I was not raised as a Satanist, but I do feel that these feelings and beliefs were with me from a very early age, I just did not understand them, or accept them. I started to call myself a Satanist, not because I changed my religion, but because I found Satanism, and it said what I already believed. I took the title, but there rest was already there, inside me. Many others have described similar experiences, leading to the expressing, "Satanists are born, not made." As such, we do not try to convert anyone (in fact, we tend to think of ourselves as somewhat elite and are critical of anyone claiming to be a Satanist who doesn't strike us a smart or together enough). But, we do try to be open to polite, inquiring minds, since that's how many of us, certainly myself included, found out way here.

So...does some form of universal peace and good exist in your religion? and what are the good points of Lucifer?

Sort of. Good is generally synonymous with natural. All beings striving to be their personal best, and to continue their own ways, genes, and species is natural, and good. On a more day-to-day level, goodness is working toward your goals, being true to yourself, protecting the innocent, protecting everyone's rights, standing up against idiocy, bigotry, and the like, and actively making the world into a better place. We tend to define our morality in positive ways (as in, "do this") as opposed to negative ways (as in, "thou shalt not"). But, there is no universal system, it's a very subjective thing.

Peace is trickier. I do believe that a much higher level of peace both between people on this planet, and between people and this planet, is possible and desirable. The way we as a species are killing one another and polluting our planet and pushing species to extinction is wrong, and akin to an addiction. It is a weakness, and I fight against it as I am able, in the ways I've picked that suit me best, where I think I can be the most effective. However, it is in our nature to compete, among ourselves and with other life. All living things compete for resources, and strive to become as "big" and "powerful" as they can. Homo sapiens sapiens are just the same as any other species... we are just another animal, no better, just currently more powerful. We are destroying our resources so we can no longer sustain ourselves, and that is hurting us, so it is bad. On a global level, we should seek equilibrium with our environment, that would be the best for our species in the long run. But, in the smaller picture, people will always compete, argue, and fight. This in itself is not bad. After all, everyone should be the best themselves that they can, as true to what they are and as powerful as they can be. Everyone is unique, and those unique attributes, that diversity, is good and helpful to us as a whole. But, it necessitates conflict. Conflict is good and necessary, it keeps us strong, and reinforces our uniquenesses. Conflict is natural.

Oh yes, I did want to ask how you're doing with school. You appear to me to be a bright individual. I, too, enjoyed biology in school.

Thank you for asking. I'm doing alright, but not great at the moment. I have been sick (mononucleosis)  for almost two weeks, and as such I have missed a couple of classes and gotten behind on my homework. I have a microbiology exam in the morning, but I'm not too worried about it. I might not be able to pull off an A, but I'm sure I will pass. The material is mostly review, this early in the semester, and it interests me, so I tend to do well. I get good grades and enjoy school as a whole, but being sick sure has sapped away my energy. I've been exhausted, and not up to my usual standards. I sure hope I get past it soon.

I'm sorry this is so long winded. I really need to go take my bath and go to bed now. Feel free to ask any further questions, or leave comments. Hopefully some of the other Satanists around will come over and add their thoughts as well. Goodnight.

~Stalker
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6 years ago  ::  Feb 26, 2008 - 8:12PM #14
SatanicStalker
Posts: 719
Greetings, Shadow Slayer. Thank you for your post, I was beginning to wonder if anyone was still interested.

Is that to mean something like "denominations?" Like in the Christian belief system, there are many branches (denominations) such as Catholic, Baptist, Presbyterian, Methodist, etc. Is that what you mean?

Sort of. Not really. My understanding of a Christian (for example) denomination is that each denomination is an organized sort of thing, with agreed upon rules and beliefs. There are some Satanic "churches" such at the Church of Satan founded by Anton LaVey, that are somewhat organized, but two people can both be modern Satanists while at the same time agreeing on essencially nothing. Maybe a better analogy would be Catholic vs. Protestant. There can be a great variety between Protestant systems, but it can still be useful to distinguish between them and Catholics.

Does being selfish make humans candidates for Satanism?

Not especially. All humans are selfish. The distinction lies in (1) admitting and fully accepting selfishness as a natural aspect of yourself and (2) understanding your own motivations so that you can be a helpful and functional member of society from that vantage point.

I'm not sure I understand any point you might have been trying to make with the bully story.

My point was that I think I would have been better served to fight back against her, to take revenge on her, but I did not because of an objective blanket moral system that I had been taught that said you should always forgive, not fight back. It was an example of how automatic forgiveness can be damaging to the individual, and thus morally wrong.

Do you practice "Black Magick" or any kind of magick?

We don't have to, but it is certianly an option available to us. I've never used black magic myself (I don't think any magic can be so simply split into "good" or "bad" anyway, but I've never done magic aimed at harming anyone), but I have used magic, and believe that I still could if I had a reason. Certainly, though, great care must be taken with magic of any sort, as I learned the hard way.

Is there spirituality in Satanism?

How do you define spirituality? If you mean communion with other beings, such as spirits, gods, angels, demons, etc., then there can be, but it is not necessary. I have a good relationship with one god, I just see our relationship as one of mutuality, not dominance and subservience. I do not worship him, but I do celebrate his presence in my life and give him respect.

I understand you consider yourself a "Modern Satanist" but where is Satan in it for you?

Satan is a mythological figure who, much like Prometheus, was the first to stand up to God, the leading authority of the time, and who gave knowledge (fire, fruit) to human kind to free mankind from their dependance on God. Satan refused to take God as his superior, prefering to be in charge himself. That challenge of authority, valuing knowledge and power of safety and dependance, and ultimate freedom of choice are the ideas that Satan represents to me.

There is a book called The Satanic Bible by Anton LaVey, but it is not universally accepted, and pretty much all who do accept it recognize that it is a book written by a man, not divine scripture. Those who mostly accept it as part of their faith system are, you guessed it, members of the Church of Satan, or LaVeyan Satanists.

I assume that means you're not really one but just agree with some of the concepts that resonate for you...?

No, I am a Satanist, fully and completely, just not a traditional Satanist. My belief in and respect for the symbol is no less real or powerful than a traditional Satanist's belief in and respect for the being they believe Satan is.

Those don't really sound like virtues of Satan as portrayed in biblical scripture. Sounds quite sugary and sweet.

As portrayed in Biblical scripture, no. The Bible is not our ultimate source of information. Some of the others here could give you a much better historical lesson on Satan than I, but I encourage you to ask DevilsAdvocate666, he usually has good sources. And we don't want to be just like Satan (whether the symbol or the being), we just follow the example and seek to be ultimately true to ourselves.

If you were campaigning for membership, a line might be forming. There's no evil involved in Satanism? No God-hating? It's all still very vague.

Would you be happier with secret candle-lit rituals of people dressed all in black sacrificing babies and then having an orgy? Not my cup of tea, I'm afraid.

It's my observation that the purpose of religion for many if not most people is to act as a shield, a giant metaphorical parent with a long apron that the religion's members can hide behind from all the scary things of the world. They want assurance that death is not really the end, because it's scary to think of not existing. They want to know that evil people really will get it in the end, because it makes them feel better. They want there to be someone always there that they can ask for help if all else fails because facing oblivion alone is frightening. People don't want to be alone, they don't want to die, they don't want to think that the world really is controlled by evil bastards and that no punishment awaits those evil bastards. Satanism rejects this tendency to hide under the covers and wait for it all to go away. Yes, there are monsters under the bed and daddy's flashlight won't make them go away. You'll have to face them yourself, alone, and there's nothing that says you won't lose.

Evil? It exists, both in large concentrations in some places and in at least small concentrations in every person. It should be embraced with the rest of the individual, to the extent that it can be beneficial.

God-hating? There are a large number of Satanists who are also God-haters and/or Christian haters, but I am not. It's not a prerequisit. Many people are drawn to Satanism because of bad experiences on the other side of the spectrum, and some of us just find ourselves naturally this way.

Seems like something's not being addressed here.

Is that an accusation of dishonesty or a request for more details? If you want some more specific explanation of some aspect, ask.

Thank you for your inquiries, your response is welcomed.

~Stalker
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6 years ago  ::  Mar 03, 2008 - 12:19PM #15
Christ07
Posts: 4,891
What kind of magic have you used, and what are the effects?
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6 years ago  ::  Mar 05, 2008 - 8:12PM #16
SatanicStalker
Posts: 719
[QUOTE=Christ07;329443]What kind of magic have you used, and what are the effects?[/QUOTE]

Most of my past magic usage was in the form of simple spells, usually using some combination of candles, herbs, stones, prayer, and meditation. I would do healing spells for loved ones who were ill or injured, and sometimes for myself but it's difficult to do a spell right when you are not at your peak. Similarly, I've done spells to lend strength to loved ones in need. I've done two binding spells on people who were causing harm to people I cared about, the purpose of which was to make them ineffectual in the realm of causing harm but to have no effect on the rest of thier lives. Once, I was given a couple of objects by someone who was an enemy of someone close to me and who had motivation to be my enemy, who I knew had knowledge of the practice of magic, but who had never openly opposed me. I enclosed the items in a clensing circle and did a reflection spell over them. The purpose of that spell is to reflect any spells that might have been present on the objects, and to clense them of any previous energies. If they were the simple gift they appeared, the spell would have no effect. If there was some sort of malicious intent involved, the spell would send it back to the giver. That was about as "dark" as I was willing to go in those days.

The time I made reference to taught me to respect the power and chose my intentions very carefully.

I was in the habit of periodically doing a simple protection spell on my bedroom. I would go to every door and window, encircle it with the smoke of protective incense, and chant something to the effect of "let only the powers of good enter through this door/ window," then finish by encircling the entire room and saying "let only the powers of good enter into this room."

What I failed to realize is that no person is only good. I was away for a couple of weeks, and while I was gone my family had guests. My mother suggested that my cousin Amanda, who was close in age to me, sleep in my room. She entered it, then came out insisting that she couldn't sleep there, it felt wrong. So, my mother sent my aunt to sleep in that room, but she came out just as quickly, saying the same as my cousin, that it felt wrong. So, my mother sent my uncle Don into the room, and he slept there, and promptly caught pnemonia. It did not kill him, but it did weaken and hurt him.

When I returned, my mother asked if I had done some sort of protection spell on the room, so I told her about it. She told me about my relatives' experiences with my room while I was away. I felt terrible, and still do to some extent although that was years ago. Mostly I've just become far more careful and sparing in my use of magic.

I have never again used that spell, and my mother has never again suggested that anyone enter my room for any reason without clearing it with me in advance.

~Stalker
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6 years ago  ::  Mar 05, 2008 - 8:12PM #17
SatanicStalker
Posts: 719
[QUOTE=Christ07;329443]What kind of magic have you used, and what are the effects?[/QUOTE]

Most of my past magic usage was in the form of simple spells, usually using some combination of candles, herbs, stones, prayer, and meditation. I would do healing spells for loved ones who were ill or injured, and sometimes for myself but it's difficult to do a spell right when you are not at your peak. Similarly, I've done spells to lend strength to loved ones in need. I've done two binding spells on people who were causing harm to people I cared about, the purpose of which was to make them ineffectual in the realm of causing harm but to have no effect on the rest of thier lives. Once, I was given a couple of objects by someone who was an enemy of someone close to me and who had motivation to be my enemy, who I knew had knowledge of the practice of magic, but who had never openly opposed me. I enclosed the items in a clensing circle and did a reflection spell over them. The purpose of that spell is to reflect any spells that might have been present on the objects, and to clense them of any previous energies. If they were the simple gift they appeared, the spell would have no effect. If there was some sort of malicious intent involved, the spell would send it back to the giver. That was about as "dark" as I was willing to go in those days.

The time I made reference to taught me to respect the power and chose my intentions very carefully.

I was in the habit of periodically doing a simple protection spell on my bedroom. I would go to every door and window, encircle it with the smoke of protective incense, and chant something to the effect of "let only the powers of good enter through this door/ window," then finish by encircling the entire room and saying "let only the powers of good enter into this room."

What I failed to realize is that no person is only good. I was away for a couple of weeks, and while I was gone my family had guests. My mother suggested that my cousin Amanda, who was close in age to me, sleep in my room. She entered it, then came out insisting that she couldn't sleep there, it felt wrong. So, my mother sent my aunt to sleep in that room, but she came out just as quickly, saying the same as my cousin, that it felt wrong. So, my mother sent my uncle Don into the room, and he slept there, and promptly caught pnemonia. It did not kill him, but it did weaken and hurt him.

When I returned, my mother asked if I had done some sort of protection spell on the room, so I told her about it. She told me about my relatives' experiences with my room while I was away. I felt terrible, and still do to some extent although that was years ago. Mostly I've just become far more careful and sparing in my use of magic.

I have never again used that spell, and my mother has never again suggested that anyone enter my room for any reason without clearing it with me in advance.

~Stalker
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6 years ago  ::  Mar 06, 2008 - 1:50PM #18
Kiryu
Posts: 17
Greetings!

I am a completely new user to this forum and new to Satanism. I have been going through many religions and philosophies trying to find where I wish to stay and I have landed here. Sadly, I do not know a whole lot about Satanism yet. I am thankful for the explainations that have already been posted. <3 The ideas I have had about Satanism before coming here are very similar to what you guys have posted.

Does anyone have some advice for newcomers?
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6 years ago  ::  Mar 06, 2008 - 7:16PM #19
SatanicStalker
Posts: 719
Greetings and Welcome!

My best advice is simply to hang out, here and on the other two Satanism boards (Satanism Faith Community and Discuss Satanism), talk, ask questions, listen to people, read things, etc.. Have fun.

~Stalker
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6 years ago  ::  Mar 07, 2008 - 8:10PM #20
SatanicStalker
Posts: 719
[QUOTE=Black Panther;339722]And that makes one an ideal candidate for Satanism?[/QUOTE]

It helps, but ideal cantidate? I wouldn't use those words myself. Satanism is not a system that seeks to gain recruits (except for the few branches that charge money for entrance into the church, but I distain such organizations). A Satanist typically discovers that he is a Satanist, rather than becomes a Satanist. The qualities are nearly always present from the beginning, and the person later learns that there are others and they call the system Satanism. We often tend to discourage conversion since so many people seem to want to join for the freak factor.

[QUOTE=Black Panther;339722]Personally speaking, if someone says something to me that strikes a nerve causing some kind of emotional reaction in me, I'm of the belief that nine times out of ten there must be some truth in it. [abridged] People spend a lot of time blaming others for their misery instead of taking responsibility for how much they contribute to their own issues. Meh... just my opinion.[/QUOTE]

This is true. However, there is a massive difference between someone who gently pulls you aside and whispers to you that you smell of garlic and should go brush your teeth and someone who announces to you in front of a group of your classmates who happen to be impressionable fourth graders, some of whom you considered friends, that no one likes you, no one will ever like you, people will only ever just feel sorry for you. There's nothing constructive or helpful in that, and really nothing substantive. If she'd have said, "no one likes you because your breath stinks," well, I could have done something about that. Rather, it became a self fulfilling prophecy as I metaphorically went and sat by myself in a corner for the next 5 years. Then, people really did feel sorry for me. And it's true, I was in misery for a good deal of that time, and it was my own fault. But the changes that helped me to get out of that cycle and overcome are also the changes that make me far less willing to take abuse sitting down, or to turn the other cheek.

[QUOTE=Black Panther;339722]I believe spirituality is all about your relationship with GreatSpirit, Creator, or however you term the source of life. Spirituality causes us to be aware of the relation of our inner spirit to life, and it compliments religion, yet it doesn't hold dogma or creed of religious belief systems. [/QUOTE]

So, by your definition, can someone who doesn't recognize a creator be spiritual at all? If I believe that life created itself, but feel a strong connection to that life and give it respect, can that be a form of spirituality by your definition?

[QUOTE=Black Panther;339722]"I have a good relationship with one god, I just see our relationship as one of mutuality, not dominance and subservience. I do not worship him, but I do celebrate his presence in my life and give him respect."

Would that be Satan?[/QUOTE]

No. I don't believe that Satan exists as a being in any form other than the imaginations of some humans. The god I follow is a weather god, who was the only one who answered me when in desperation I called out to every god I could think of (including the Christian one) and any others who might be listening, and he answered in a spectacular way that left no room in my mind or the minds of other who were there. He chose the name Thor for me to call him, though he is not simply the Norse god of mythology. I was familiar with Norse mythology and made the connection between a storm god and that name, and he found it acceptable and took it for his dealings with me. Whether he has ever gone by that name before, I do not know, he's never told me.

[QUOTE=Black Panther;339722]"Would you be happier with secret candle-lit rituals of people dressed all in black sacrificing babies and then having an orgy? Not my cup of tea, I'm afraid."

Is that what is done in your religious belief system? Years ago I was active in the Ministry, I was doing some research and read a book about a woman who suffered SRA (Satanic Ritual Abuse). The title of the book escapes me; it's been so long, but it's no longer in print (I got a second-hand copy) and it's based on a true story, I believe it was even a movie. [/QUOTE]

No. No one in my belief system has ever sacrificed a baby, it goes against some of the most important tenets of the system. Has anyone ever done so who called himself a Satanist? I don't know. Maybe. There will always be idiocy and evil among humans. I doubt it, however. It fits too neatly into the rest of the church propoganda system, I doubt it's based on real events

Understand that the system which was labeled by the Catholic church 600 years ago as "Satanism" for the purpose of scaring people into being Catholic is for the most part unrelated to what most modern Satanists would say Satanism is. I've also read books and heard stories about Satanic Ritual Abuse, and none of it has ever seemed believable, or was backed up with solid evidence that could convince my empirical mind. And I really hope you're not implying that the fact that it was made into a movie lends it credence. Anyone who ever watched a Disney movie as a child should know better. Technically, the Disney version of Pocohontas was based on a true story.

~Stalker
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