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7 years ago  ::  Mar 07, 2008 - 8:10PM #21
SatanicStalker
Posts: 719
[QUOTE=Black Panther;339722]And that makes one an ideal candidate for Satanism?[/QUOTE]

It helps, but ideal cantidate? I wouldn't use those words myself. Satanism is not a system that seeks to gain recruits (except for the few branches that charge money for entrance into the church, but I distain such organizations). A Satanist typically discovers that he is a Satanist, rather than becomes a Satanist. The qualities are nearly always present from the beginning, and the person later learns that there are others and they call the system Satanism. We often tend to discourage conversion since so many people seem to want to join for the freak factor.

[QUOTE=Black Panther;339722]Personally speaking, if someone says something to me that strikes a nerve causing some kind of emotional reaction in me, I'm of the belief that nine times out of ten there must be some truth in it. [abridged] People spend a lot of time blaming others for their misery instead of taking responsibility for how much they contribute to their own issues. Meh... just my opinion.[/QUOTE]

This is true. However, there is a massive difference between someone who gently pulls you aside and whispers to you that you smell of garlic and should go brush your teeth and someone who announces to you in front of a group of your classmates who happen to be impressionable fourth graders, some of whom you considered friends, that no one likes you, no one will ever like you, people will only ever just feel sorry for you. There's nothing constructive or helpful in that, and really nothing substantive. If she'd have said, "no one likes you because your breath stinks," well, I could have done something about that. Rather, it became a self fulfilling prophecy as I metaphorically went and sat by myself in a corner for the next 5 years. Then, people really did feel sorry for me. And it's true, I was in misery for a good deal of that time, and it was my own fault. But the changes that helped me to get out of that cycle and overcome are also the changes that make me far less willing to take abuse sitting down, or to turn the other cheek.

[QUOTE=Black Panther;339722]I believe spirituality is all about your relationship with GreatSpirit, Creator, or however you term the source of life. Spirituality causes us to be aware of the relation of our inner spirit to life, and it compliments religion, yet it doesn't hold dogma or creed of religious belief systems. [/QUOTE]

So, by your definition, can someone who doesn't recognize a creator be spiritual at all? If I believe that life created itself, but feel a strong connection to that life and give it respect, can that be a form of spirituality by your definition?

[QUOTE=Black Panther;339722]"I have a good relationship with one god, I just see our relationship as one of mutuality, not dominance and subservience. I do not worship him, but I do celebrate his presence in my life and give him respect."

Would that be Satan?[/QUOTE]

No. I don't believe that Satan exists as a being in any form other than the imaginations of some humans. The god I follow is a weather god, who was the only one who answered me when in desperation I called out to every god I could think of (including the Christian one) and any others who might be listening, and he answered in a spectacular way that left no room in my mind or the minds of other who were there. He chose the name Thor for me to call him, though he is not simply the Norse god of mythology. I was familiar with Norse mythology and made the connection between a storm god and that name, and he found it acceptable and took it for his dealings with me. Whether he has ever gone by that name before, I do not know, he's never told me.

[QUOTE=Black Panther;339722]"Would you be happier with secret candle-lit rituals of people dressed all in black sacrificing babies and then having an orgy? Not my cup of tea, I'm afraid."

Is that what is done in your religious belief system? Years ago I was active in the Ministry, I was doing some research and read a book about a woman who suffered SRA (Satanic Ritual Abuse). The title of the book escapes me; it's been so long, but it's no longer in print (I got a second-hand copy) and it's based on a true story, I believe it was even a movie. [/QUOTE]

No. No one in my belief system has ever sacrificed a baby, it goes against some of the most important tenets of the system. Has anyone ever done so who called himself a Satanist? I don't know. Maybe. There will always be idiocy and evil among humans. I doubt it, however. It fits too neatly into the rest of the church propoganda system, I doubt it's based on real events

Understand that the system which was labeled by the Catholic church 600 years ago as "Satanism" for the purpose of scaring people into being Catholic is for the most part unrelated to what most modern Satanists would say Satanism is. I've also read books and heard stories about Satanic Ritual Abuse, and none of it has ever seemed believable, or was backed up with solid evidence that could convince my empirical mind. And I really hope you're not implying that the fact that it was made into a movie lends it credence. Anyone who ever watched a Disney movie as a child should know better. Technically, the Disney version of Pocohontas was based on a true story.

~Stalker
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7 years ago  ::  Mar 17, 2008 - 8:35PM #22
SatanicStalker
Posts: 719
[QUOTE=Black Panther;354300]I would disagree with you there.  Setting aside ego and emotions, the import isn’t in the messenger and how it was delivered, but in the message received. [/QUOTE]

Pray tell, what is the message? What do you think would be the most correct way to respond to that situation? Not forgiveness, not inattention, not opposition, then what?

[QUOTE=Black Panther;354300]Ah, but at the juvenile age of 9 you may not have been fully aware that what you experienced then might have been her using you as a sounding board, reflecting off of you the image she truly (and perhaps secretly) held for herself.  You’re right, a youthful generation is highly impressionable as they are still very new to this world in general, and are/will always be in a learning process.  At that age (and going forward), we mostly learn in hindsight of our experiences, and through introspection and assimilation we may come to true understanding that adds to our wisdom.  Meh… just my opinions….[/QUOTE]

I do think it's entirely possible that she believed of herself what she said about me. I do (now) believe that she was a troubled child who took out anger, frustration, and grief on those she percieved weaker than her and put others down in order to boost her own self importance. I don't know the cause of her pain or grief, but I don't really need to. Yes, this is tragic. But, I am not a good little Christian who believes that such people should be just forgiven, loved, and shown the way to God. I believe that such people are abusive and should be at least opposed, at best stripped of their weapons and stopped from hurting more innocent people, regardless of their motivations. Who knows, perhaps a confrontation with me back then might have opened her eyes to the path she was on and ultimately help her to learn how to interact with others without being a bully.

[QUOTE=Black Panther;354300]“Rather, it became a self fulfilling prophecy as I metaphorically went and sat by myself in a corner for the next 5 years.”

It was *your* decision to grab the mirror she offered and run with it.[/QUOTE]

Yes, I made the wrong choice. Exactly. That's what I've been saying. And I've learned better since then. That's my point.

[QUOTE=Black Panther;354300]“No. No one in my belief system has ever sacrificed a baby, it goes against some of the most important tenets of the system.”

And what are those tenets?[/QUOTE]

Let's see how many things I can come up with that are wrong with human infant sacrifice:

1. Babies are innocent, faultless. They are not capable of deserving to be murdered. Harm should be done to others only in cases of need (such as self defence, defence of one's family, killing for food, etc.) or if they really deserve it AND the act of killing them results in a net increase of human potential (for example, evil dictators).

2. Babies are dense packets of unrealized but potent potential. Realized potential is of the utmost value, and next to that, potential itself. Yes, like all living things, they do have the potential to die. But to direct them towards that realization of their potential before others can be explored is kind of like burning a $100 bill. Yes, it has the potential to ignite, give off light and heat, but that's no where near it's true potential.

Everyone dies. Death is like a very valuable coin, of which everyone has only one. Some try to steal others' coins (murder, war, genocide, etc.), but ultimately they just waste the coins of others, but never possess them. This coin should be spent carefully and well, and preferably after other potentials have been realized.

3. Babies have the right to live. To take away some one else's rights with no need or provocation is evil.

4. To perform a human sacrifice would suggest the belief in some "higher" being that deserves sacrifices, and would show a subservience more akin to the Abramic traditions. I distain such subservience.

5. A being worthy of such respect and worship should not need a dead baby.

6. True sacrifice should be given of oneself. To sacrifice a person is, by definition, to give of someone else's self. It's not yours to give.

7. Unless that baby is *your* baby, at least someone you care about, then it's not even really a sacrifice on your part.

8. If that baby IS your own, or someone you care about, then you have broken your duties and responsibilities to that child, and you have no honor.

9. It is entirely illegal while containing no good reason to break the law.

10. It would increase the negative public opinion of Satanism and thus add an obstacle in the road toward ultimate realization of potential for both the killer and all other Satanists.

11. To kill a person in the vast majority of circumstances reduces the humanity of the killer, thus distancing him from his true self and ultimate potential.

12. Murder is an action which produces guilt in the vast majority of people, and guilt is an emotion that reduces a person's effectiveness.

13. To try to feel powerful by controlling someone weak and defenseless is pathetic.

14. All else notwithstanding, it is sick and wrong.

I'm sure there are more, but that's all I care to brainstorm right now. I think I've gotten my point across.

[QUOTE=Black Panther;354300]“Has anyone ever done so who called himself a Satanist? I don't know.”

I don’t know either; as I said, this is all new to me.  But what I *do* know from my experience with Freemasonry and from life, in general, is that there will always be a group of bashers… Those who stand in opposition, and even hate, what they either do not understand or were taught neither to accept nor respect, but to adamantly deny and reject it.  It’s sort of like racism; some people were raised to hate a particular ethnicity of humanity… They never question why; it just becomes ingrained in them and they just run on auto-pilot when interacting.  In any event, those groups are usually comprised of closed-minded fanatics, cozy in their comfort zone and afraid of what is outside their box. [/QUOTE]

Very true. Equally true of some people who call themselves Satanists and do little more than bash Christians and those who hate and fear Satanism yet have no idea what it is about.

~Stalker
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7 years ago  ::  Mar 20, 2008 - 9:10PM #23
SatanicStalker
Posts: 719
[QUOTE=Black Panther;369992]I'd say "the message" was in whatever struck the nerve... I think the best response in such a situation would be to not respond immediately.  Walk away, detach from the emotion and examine what it's all about (why it bothers you)... Pray on it (if you do that) for guidance if you're having trouble with the introspection... "Sleep on it" so to speak, then later when you're calmer, you can approach the situation with more clarity.  [/QUOTE]

Actually, that is much the way I did respond. It didn't strike a nerve at the time... it hurt, yes, but in the way that any unexpected insult hurts.I would say it created the nerve. Before that incident, I didn't have a specific fear of no one liking me, of being pitiful, etc. I did simply walk away quietly, think about it, and fairly quickly forgive. Only after that did various experiences strike that nerve.

My anger is retrospective. Admittedly there was always a little resentment (I guess that's not perfect forgiveness, is it?), but it wasn't until years later when I looked at my life, at my shyness, my meekness, my fear of people, and realized that I wasn't always this way. I've never been terribly outgoing, but after this specific incident I did pull away from people more and more and lived a life based more on fear, self pity, and poor self worth. At that point (years after the incident) I looked back and attributed much of it to that encounter. At that point, I got angry. Not at the bully. I still carry the very same minor resentment that I have since that time, but I know that she was a troubled child. Rather, the anger was at myself for being so weak, so meek and pathetic. I decided to turn that anger toward self improvement and I've made the effort to stop being meek, to never just sit and take abuse from anyone. Ever.

When I say that I should have fought back against her, I don't mean that I am still angry at her, or even that I would do anything at all if I happened to meet her again, in the present. Rather, I mean that I believe it would have been better for my 10 year old self if I had done so, back then.

[QUOTE=Black Panther;369992]It's great to be forgiving and inattention isn't the answer; wounds need to be attended to. [/QUOTE]

Forgiveness has it's place. I'd say that probably in the majority of situations even it's probably the best, healthiest thing to do. But I do not think that anyone should ever forgive mindlessly. It should be an informed decision. I also think it's unhealthy to forgive before the injury has been recieved in total. Nor should forgiveness be given with no preparations on either party to prevent further injury. The wife who mindlessly forgives her husband while he is beating her is only teaching herself and her husband that it's fine to beat her. She should stand up to him, tell him no. If he relents, they talk, they work things out and they make some changes to the situation that is leading him to beat her, and he asks for her forgiveness... THAT is the time that it may be healthy to start the forgiveness process.

Forgiveness is a form of healing. It's easy to say "yes, you should always heal," but if there's a poisoned barb shoved into your flesh, then you should probably remove the barb and clean the would before it heals shut. Otherwise, the poison is sealed inside of you with no way to remove it short of surgery. Likewise the bone that heals crooked could leave the patient permanently disabled, a disability that could have been prevented had it been set first.

Speaker for the Dead by Orson Scott Card is an incredible book that also deals with such issues, and I recommend it to anyone.

[QUOTE=Black Panther;369992]I admire your brilliant wit, and you've presented yourself here respectable manner.  Thanks for taking the time out of your busy school schedule to share your beliefs.[/QUOTE]

Thank you very much. I have also enjoyed this discussion. Unfortunately I don't meet someone with your capacity to challenge ideas without giving insult or withholding truth every day. I greatly admire that, and thank you for it. Of such discussions comes greater understanding.

~Stalker
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7 years ago  ::  Apr 13, 2008 - 6:59PM #24
Pikkdog
Posts: 1
[QUOTE=SatanicStalker;272417]I see.

Well, that's nice.

This is a small sample of what you may get in return.

1. This is a rediculuous question. If you believe that we do our rituals in secret, they why would you think we would tell you about them?

2. Well, he's got those big horns in the front, it's just safer to walk behind.

3. I think that you know very little of Satan. I think that you have beliefs about Satan spoon-fed to you by a council of old men whose main motivation was to control the masses.

4. He can fly.

5. I only have power over those who allow me power over them.



By the way, thank you Black Panther for the heads up, I had also all but forgotten about this board, and I am only online a couple of times a week in any case.

By all means, cultresearcher, ask what questions you will. Don't expect our answers to be the ones you already have comebacks for. And, be warned, we have been know to ask questions back.

For instance, if your God is so much greater than your Satan, then why did God succumb to Satan's temptation in the Book of Job, when Satan taunted God with the idea that Job would turn away from him if God took away all of the good things in his life? Why did God find in necessary to prove to Satan and himself that Job's faith was pure, and find it worthwhile to destroy Job's home, his family, and his livelihood just to satisfy his own insecurity?

~Stalker[/QUOTE]
omfg... those are the kinda responses to dumb questions that make me proud to call myself a satanist
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7 years ago  ::  Apr 13, 2008 - 6:59PM #25
Pikkdog
Posts: 1
[QUOTE=SatanicStalker;272417]I see.

Well, that's nice.

This is a small sample of what you may get in return.

1. This is a rediculuous question. If you believe that we do our rituals in secret, they why would you think we would tell you about them?

2. Well, he's got those big horns in the front, it's just safer to walk behind.

3. I think that you know very little of Satan. I think that you have beliefs about Satan spoon-fed to you by a council of old men whose main motivation was to control the masses.

4. He can fly.

5. I only have power over those who allow me power over them.



By the way, thank you Black Panther for the heads up, I had also all but forgotten about this board, and I am only online a couple of times a week in any case.

By all means, cultresearcher, ask what questions you will. Don't expect our answers to be the ones you already have comebacks for. And, be warned, we have been know to ask questions back.

For instance, if your God is so much greater than your Satan, then why did God succumb to Satan's temptation in the Book of Job, when Satan taunted God with the idea that Job would turn away from him if God took away all of the good things in his life? Why did God find in necessary to prove to Satan and himself that Job's faith was pure, and find it worthwhile to destroy Job's home, his family, and his livelihood just to satisfy his own insecurity?

~Stalker[/QUOTE]
omfg... those are the kinda responses to dumb questions that make me proud to call myself a satanist
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6 years ago  ::  May 02, 2008 - 10:36AM #26
Swings
Posts: 1
[QUOTE=SatanicStalker;23704]Hello, SatanicStalker is my name of choice. I am female by gender, 20 years of age, and an enthusiastic college sophomore. I am a Satanist by religion and philosophy and a polytheist. I believe in the existance of many, possibly countless gods, I recognize some, respect a few, have a close relationship with one, and worship none. I have no political affiliation, and I am a radical reactionary by political stance. If you'd like to know more, feel free to ask me. I'm not scary, I don't bite unless you happen to be made out of cheese (and even then I'm polite about it), and I'm happy to talk college sophomore level biology with anyone interested.

~Stalker[/QUOTE]


HI,
     I'm doing a report on Satanism and i need to interview som1 that believes in it, i am also curious to learn about Satanism.
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6 years ago  ::  May 02, 2008 - 10:36AM #27
Swings
Posts: 1
[QUOTE=SatanicStalker;23704]Hello, SatanicStalker is my name of choice. I am female by gender, 20 years of age, and an enthusiastic college sophomore. I am a Satanist by religion and philosophy and a polytheist. I believe in the existance of many, possibly countless gods, I recognize some, respect a few, have a close relationship with one, and worship none. I have no political affiliation, and I am a radical reactionary by political stance. If you'd like to know more, feel free to ask me. I'm not scary, I don't bite unless you happen to be made out of cheese (and even then I'm polite about it), and I'm happy to talk college sophomore level biology with anyone interested.

~Stalker[/QUOTE]


HI,
     I'm doing a report on Satanism and i need to interview som1 that believes in it, i am also curious to learn about Satanism.
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6 years ago  ::  May 07, 2008 - 1:10AM #28
SatanicStalker
Posts: 719
It's finals week for me right now (genetics and organic chemistry tomorrow, psychology and microbiology later in the week), so I'm afraid I can't do much until friday afternoon at the earliest. What kind of a report are you doing?

I will send you a private message for more details.

~Stalker
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6 years ago  ::  Jul 28, 2008 - 10:42AM #29
julie482
Posts: 22
[QUOTE=Kiryu;336913]Greetings!

I am a completely new user to this forum and new to Satanism. I have been going through many religions and philosophies trying to find where I wish to stay and I have landed here. Sadly, I do not know a whole lot about Satanism yet. I am thankful for the explainations that have already been posted. <3 The ideas I have had about Satanism before coming here are very similar to what you guys have posted.

Does anyone have some advice for newcomers?[/QUOTE]
Here's someone elses point of view also: Satan is not mythological.Christians recognize and believe Satan is very real...as is God is Very Real. God is Love,God is with me everyday...I could not have made it thru this many years without God. Satan works on my family everyday....but with our prayers to God, we are protected and continue to live,work,go to school,and play.         As for the bully,many people were bullies,and were bullied in school.I was bullied constantly singled out by a girl named Kathy and her gang. One day I saw her coming toward me always backed by 4 or 5 friends...I was only 9 but I asked God for help that day and when she came up and pushed me,,,,I told her I felt sorry for her...that she must have someone at home who pushes her around like that and that's why she acted like she does...You should have seen the shock on her face and I knew at that second that I had exactly guessed the problem she had....Where did that question come from?not me...I was not smart at 9 yrs old and had NEVER confronted anyone like that...or even knew anything about child abuse,,,this was in the 60's and we did not have all the helpful advertisements and programs on child abuse then...I knew in my little 9 yr.old heart, those words were spoken by God...I would like to say we went on to be friends,didn't happen..she never spoke or bullied me again...and I wonder if she ever did to anyone else? I would like to talk to her today and find out how she turned out...Not the first time God helped me on the playground...peace...
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6 years ago  ::  Jul 31, 2008 - 2:39AM #30
SatanicStalker
Posts: 719
That's a neat story and it's interesting to hear about what you believe, but what does this have to do with Satanism?

It is interesting how we both were influenced by bullies as children, yet the experiences sent us in very different directions. Your God taught you what the bullying meant and gave you a keen and helpful insight into the problems that bully faced, and helped you to become a more loving person. Though I did not have my current beliefs at the time, I have nonetheless decide to turn the negative childhood experience and the anger it produced into self improvement. I also got the insight into where bullies come from, though years after the fact, and I also used the insight to stop the chain of abuse, and refuse to turn my own frustrations against innocent bystanders. Yet, I do not begrudge the anger and frustrations that I felt, for they have helped me greatly in my search for truth.

Welcome to the Satanism boards. If you'd like to learn about Satanism, this is a good place for it. If you'd like to debate Satanism in the process of learning about it, please join us over at the Discuss Satanism board.

~Stalker
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