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Switch to Forum Live View Bill Gates rips off Baha'i photo
3 years ago  ::  Dec 27, 2014 - 12:02AM #1
Aka_me
Posts: 14,464

so I was watching a video on Bill Gates, and at 5 minutes and 28 seconds into the video...


I say to myself "that photo looks familiar".


and sure enough, I have seen it before


what do you think of Bill ripping off a Baha'i photo in order to describe de-population?

I dream in my lifetime uhmericans will come to realize hezbollah, hamas, and isis gain followers by helping society AND the only way to defeat them is to perform greater good.

the average person is 8 times more likely to be murdered by a cop than a radical terrorist
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3 years ago  ::  Dec 27, 2014 - 12:18PM #2
Lilwabbit
Posts: 3,409

If no copyright infringement is perpetrated, I do not find it particularly disturbing if Bahá'ís aren't explicitly mentioned in a photo of them used for a social cause by a former business executive. He is merely exercising his freedoms.

"All things have I willed for you, and you too, for your own sake."
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3 years ago  ::  Dec 27, 2014 - 7:14PM #3
Aka_me
Posts: 14,464

Dec 27, 2014 -- 12:18PM, Lilwabbit wrote:


If no copyright infringement is perpetrated, I do not find it particularly disturbing if Bahá'ís aren't explicitly mentioned in a photo of them used for a social cause by a former business executive. He is merely exercising his freedoms.



if it isn't copyright protected... then everyone can use it, including kkk and neo nazis.


it aught to be copyright protected just so material isn't used in deceptive manipulation of the actual message.

I dream in my lifetime uhmericans will come to realize hezbollah, hamas, and isis gain followers by helping society AND the only way to defeat them is to perform greater good.

the average person is 8 times more likely to be murdered by a cop than a radical terrorist
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3 years ago  ::  Dec 27, 2014 - 10:36PM #4
Ironhold
Posts: 12,363

...and even if it is copy protected, US law still allows for people to use copyrighted material so long as the usage meets the legal requirements set out under the "Fair Use" clause of the United States copyright law.


It is, however, considered good form to credit the source even under such circumstances. 

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3 years ago  ::  Dec 28, 2014 - 4:08AM #5
Lilwabbit
Posts: 3,409

Dec 27, 2014 -- 7:14PM, Aka_me wrote:


Dec 27, 2014 -- 12:18PM, Lilwabbit wrote:


If no copyright infringement is perpetrated, I do not find it particularly disturbing if Bahá'ís aren't explicitly mentioned in a photo of them used for a social cause by a former business executive. He is merely exercising his freedoms.



if it isn't copyright protected... then everyone can use it, including kkk and neo nazis.



I have no problem with that either. Perhaps the picture is the only thing that could waft a whiff of sanity into their bigoted midst. :)


Dec 27, 2014 -- 7:14PM, Aka_me wrote:

it ought to be copyright protected just so material isn't used in deceptive manipulation of the actual message.



I personally would never copyright unity and fellowship (portrayed in the picture). Some other pictures maybe, the careless dissemination of which could jeapordize the interests of private individuals or groups. There's no hard and fast rule. We have to look at the need of copyrighting case-by-case. A picture that is by its very nature universally healing should never be withheld from any group or individual, no matter how vile. Least of all bigoted groups.

"All things have I willed for you, and you too, for your own sake."
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3 years ago  ::  Dec 28, 2014 - 1:58PM #6
world citizen
Posts: 6,480

I have seen this photo in a number of places.  Aka retrieved it from a Baha'i Center site in northern Virginia.  Did they rip it off?  Obviously not, but it is also obvious that they did not produce the picture.  I believe it was taken on the steps in front of the Center for Study of the Texts on Mount Carmel.  If there is a copyright, would it be the photographer's or the UHJ's?  Would a copyright come from Israel where it was taken, or from wherever the photographer lives?  Who cares?


Perhaps we can assume that, if copyrighted, Bill Gates probably did receive permission.  He is, after all, a businessman who would be aware of possible lawsuits.  To my knowledge, however, almost all Baha'i photos are available for free usage.


I would agree with Ironhold that Bill Gates would have been remiss in not crediting the source if it had been in print form.  The video with the picture is being shown within another video, and is so briefly on screen while he is talking, that it doesn't lend itself to that.  He is talking about the world population and it's possibly the only photo they could find showing that diversity of ethnic peoples in one shot.  I say, "Excellent!" that they had to go to the Baha'i Faith for their project.  It means that someone had to do their homework.  The wrankling fault of Gates (actually by his Foundation crew who determined its use) is that it was used, however briefly, in the context of a talk about possible death panels.  Not too cool.

Blessed is he who mingleth with all men in a spirit of utmost kindliness and love.  ~Baha'u'llah
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3 years ago  ::  Dec 28, 2014 - 2:57PM #7
Aka_me
Posts: 14,464

Dec 28, 2014 -- 4:08AM, Lilwabbit wrote:

I personally would never copyright unity and fellowship (portrayed in the picture). Some other pictures maybe, the careless dissemination of which could jeapordize the interests of private individuals or groups. There's no hard and fast rule. We have to look at the need of copyrighting case-by-case. A picture that is by its very nature universally healing should never be withheld from any group or individual, no matter how vile. Least of all bigoted groups.



I have been of this opinion since joining the Faith about 18 years ago.


however if the Faith ever sees people using Baha'i material in making blatent lies about the Faith... there will be no legal means to make them stop using Baha'i material.

I dream in my lifetime uhmericans will come to realize hezbollah, hamas, and isis gain followers by helping society AND the only way to defeat them is to perform greater good.

the average person is 8 times more likely to be murdered by a cop than a radical terrorist
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3 years ago  ::  Dec 28, 2014 - 8:00PM #8
Ironhold
Posts: 12,363

Dec 28, 2014 -- 2:57PM, Aka_me wrote:


however if the Faith ever sees people using Baha'i material in making blatent lies about the Faith... there will be no legal means to make them stop using Baha'i material.




It would vary depending upon the jurisdiction in question.


However, from what I've seen most First-World nations recognize some form of "slander", "libel", and/or "defamation of character" as legal torts, and as such allow civil lawsuits to collect damage and halt the statements. In these nations, anything found to be so false will likely automatically fail any extant "Fair Use" clause unless said clause is surprisingly broad.


In a few nations, "hate speech" laws could also be brought to bear.


I had to sit through some business law classes, and so while I'm not a lawyer I do know at least a little of how the legal system works. 

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3 years ago  ::  Dec 28, 2014 - 8:08PM #9
Ironhold
Posts: 12,363

Dec 28, 2014 -- 1:58PM, world citizen wrote:


I have seen this photo in a number of places.  Aka retrieved it from a Baha'i Center site in northern Virginia.  Did they rip it off?  Obviously not, but it is also obvious that they did not produce the picture.  I believe it was taken on the steps in front of the Center for Study of the Texts on Mount Carmel.  If there is a copyright, would it be the photographer's or the UHJ's?  Would a copyright come from Israel where it was taken, or from wherever the photographer lives?  Who cares?




Copyright law varies widely from country to country, and so it would depend upon a number of details as to who owns what.


But from what I understand, it would likely come down to who commissioned the image and why.


If the UHJ hired the photographer to take the image, then the UHJ will either have sole ownership of the image or perhaps joint ownership with the photographer (depending upon what the job description and contract stated).


If the photographer took the photo on their own, then they'd likely own it unless they sold it.


It's also possible that some sort of "Creative Commons" waiver was put in place, in which the owner allows some degree of free usage... on the provision that the owner is credited in some fashion. A person might get away with saying "I found it online but couldn't find any information", but even saying that is better than saying nothing at all. 

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3 years ago  ::  Dec 29, 2014 - 2:32AM #10
Lilwabbit
Posts: 3,409

Dec 28, 2014 -- 2:57PM, Aka_me wrote:


Dec 28, 2014 -- 4:08AM, Lilwabbit wrote:

I personally would never copyright unity and fellowship (portrayed in the picture). Some other pictures maybe, the careless dissemination of which could jeapordize the interests of private individuals or groups. There's no hard and fast rule. We have to look at the need of copyrighting case-by-case. A picture that is by its very nature universally healing should never be withheld from any group or individual, no matter how vile. Least of all bigoted groups.



I have been of this opinion since joining the Faith about 18 years ago.


however if the Faith ever sees people using Baha'i material in making blatant lies about the Faith... there will be no legal means to make them stop using Baha'i material.




Were we to react piecemeal to every single lie about the Faith we would have no time for anything else. Particularly if we would copyright Writings or pictures and hence having to resort to legal means in addition to mere commentary. The sheer amount of copyright infringements perpetrated in a host of Muslim-majority countries that are signatories to international copyright treaties would simply submerge the Bahá'í community in legal battles, and that would be just half the battle. Since the inception of the Faith the strategy of the World Center has never been to react to everything, but to focus on building a new world and reacting to the worst and the most damaging accusations/lies/abuses.

"All things have I willed for you, and you too, for your own sake."
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