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5 years ago  ::  Apr 18, 2013 - 11:57AM #1
Aka_me
Posts: 14,464

does anyone have the quote which I think is from Abdu'l-Baha regarding "who is a Baha'i"?


something to the effect of "one who loves all humanity" but that's not complete.

I dream in my lifetime uhmericans will come to realize hezbollah, hamas, and isis gain followers by helping society AND the only way to defeat them is to perform greater good.

the average person is 8 times more likely to be murdered by a cop than a radical terrorist
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5 years ago  ::  Apr 18, 2013 - 6:35PM #2
Sen_McGlinn
Posts: 105
It's a pilgrim's note, which was published in the 1923 edition of "Baha'u'llah and the New Era."

"To be a Bahá'í is simply to love humanity and try to serve it; to work for universal peace and universal brotherhood."
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5 years ago  ::  Apr 18, 2013 - 6:42PM #3
Aka_me
Posts: 14,464

yes, thank you!


EDIT


interesting that it makes no mention of believing in God. I know secular humanists who fall into this definition.

I dream in my lifetime uhmericans will come to realize hezbollah, hamas, and isis gain followers by helping society AND the only way to defeat them is to perform greater good.

the average person is 8 times more likely to be murdered by a cop than a radical terrorist
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5 years ago  ::  Apr 21, 2013 - 10:45AM #4
world citizen
Posts: 6,480

Apr 18, 2013 -- 6:42PM, Aka_me wrote:


yes, thank you!


EDIT


interesting that it makes no mention of believing in God. I know secular humanists who fall into this definition.



I think that belief in God is a given.  "Baha'i" means "follower of the Glory/Light" of God.  There are many statements as to the pertinence of being a Baha'i, whether one calls himself that or not.  But if one self-identifies as a Baha'i, I believe the following words of 'Abdu'l-Baha found in the compilation "Lights of Guidance (p.70) has more credence than that from a pilgrim's note:


"They should justify their claim to be Bahá'ís by deeds and not by name... "He is a true Bahá'í who strives by day and by night to progress along the path of human endeavor, whose cherished desire is so to live and act as to enrich and illumine the world; whose source of inspiration is the essence of Divine Perfection, whose aim in life is to conduct himself so as to be the cause of infinite progress. Only when he attains unto such perfect gifts can it be said of him that he is a Bahá'í." ('Abdu'l-Bahá: Bahá'í Revelation, p. 285)

Blessed is he who mingleth with all men in a spirit of utmost kindliness and love.  ~Baha'u'llah
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4 years ago  ::  Dec 01, 2013 - 7:16PM #5
in_my_opinion
Posts: 4,107

Apr 18, 2013 -- 6:42PM, Aka_me wrote:


yes, thank you!


EDIT


interesting that it makes no mention of believing in God. I know secular humanists who fall into this definition.



There are several definitions, explanations and requirements in the Writings. They have to be taken together to answer that question.


One statement taken as a definitive concept, then interpreted loosely, loses much of meaning; and, may be misleading to those who are not familiar with the Cause.

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4 years ago  ::  Dec 02, 2013 - 7:43AM #6
Seefan
Posts: 4,017

"To be a Bahá'í simply means to love all the world; to love humanity and try to serve it; to work for universal peace and universal brotherhood." On another occasion He defined a Bahá'í as "one endowed with all the perfections of man in activity." In one of His London talks He said that a man may be a Bahá'í even if He has never heard the name of Bahá'u'lláh.  He adds: The man who lives the life according to the teachings of Bahá'u'lláh is already a Bahá'í.   (Dr. J.E. Esslemont, Baha'u'llah and the New Era, p. 71)


The question for me is can one believe in Baha'u'llah's teachings without believing in God?  If I believe in the light but refuse to call it by a particular name don't I still believe in the light?  If I believe in God's attributes but refuse to admit that it comes from God ...


In the human world, if we do not understand the divine world, is that a proof that the world of God does not exist?  (Divine Philosophy, p. 117 ... Baha'i Writings)
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4 years ago  ::  Dec 02, 2013 - 8:24PM #7
in_my_opinion
Posts: 4,107

Dec 2, 2013 -- 7:43AM, Seefan wrote:


"To be a Bahá'í simply means to love all the world; to love humanity and try to serve it; to work for universal peace and universal brotherhood." On another occasion He defined a Bahá'í as "one endowed with all the perfections of man in activity." In one of His London talks He said that a man may be a Bahá'í even if He has never heard the name of Bahá'u'lláh.  He adds: The man who lives the life according to the teachings of Bahá'u'lláh is already a Bahá'í.   (Dr. J.E. Esslemont, Baha'u'llah and the New Era, p. 71)


The question for me is can one believe in Baha'u'llah's teachings without believing in God?  If I believe in the light but refuse to call it by a particular name don't I still believe in the light?  If I believe in God's attributes but refuse to admit that it comes from God ...



Understand that the following is just this soul's understanding.


Agnostics have been accepted in the Faith.


"The famous scientist and entomologist, Dr. Auguste Forel, was converted to the Faith through the influence of a Tablet sent him by 'Abdu'l-Bahá -- one of the most weighty the Master ever wrote."


 (Shoghi Effendi, God Passes By, p. 307)


Dr. Forel asked whether he could become a Bahá'í, honestly revealing his Agnosticism. The Master accepted his declaration.


The question is thus whether someone who is an Atheist can be a believer. Have actually met one Iranian fellow who was a follower of the Faith in good standing and was Atheist. But that does not mean he was right, just that he was accepted or ignored.


The contradiction of a sincere belief in the Faith, which clearly says there is a Divine Source Who chooses a Person to Reveal the Will of God to humanity in every age and an absolute lack of belief in God is fascinating.


We might not be able to deal with such a level of incongruity but also we might just treat it as a human weakness.


Just because a blind soul cannot see a sight doesn't mean that it isn't there, nor that the soul in question is not acceptable in the sight of God, particularly if the light of goodness is evident and shines out from the person.


We must accept that as the Master says:


"2054. O pure soul! Follow thou in the footsteps of the truthful and tread the way of the righteous, so that, through truthfulness, thou mayest come to occupy a Seat of Truth,[1] and, through righteousness, thou mayest attain to abiding honour. If the sum of all sins were to be weighed in the balance, falsehood would, on its own, countervail them; nay, its evils would even outweigh them and its detriment prove greater. It were better for thee that thou shouldst be a blasphemer and tell the truth than that thou shouldst mouth the formulas of faith and yet be a liar. These clear words are addressed as an admonition to the peoples of the world. Render thanks unto God that it is through thee that this counsel hath been addressed to all mankind."
[1 Qur'án, 54:55]


(From a Tablet - translated from the Persian)


 (Compilations, The Compilation of Compilations vol II, p. 338)


But in the end it is a question that the Universal House of Justice answers. They decide, ultimately, if a soul has the sincere beliefs to be considered a follower of the Cause. Unlike all the previous Dispensations, our Lesser Covenant is absolutely clear on who determines this matter.


All can believe whatever is their heart's desire and join like-minded folks, but the unity of this Cause is firmly established and unshakeable.

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4 years ago  ::  Dec 05, 2013 - 12:12AM #8
Aka_me
Posts: 14,464

Dec 2, 2013 -- 8:24PM, in_my_opinion wrote:

The question is thus whether someone who is an Atheist can be a believer. Have actually met one Iranian fellow who was a follower of the Faith in good standing and was Atheist. But that does not mean he was right, just that he was accepted or ignored.



would be interesting to ask him why he chose to join the Faith. we certainly won't see that happening with western atheists.

I dream in my lifetime uhmericans will come to realize hezbollah, hamas, and isis gain followers by helping society AND the only way to defeat them is to perform greater good.

the average person is 8 times more likely to be murdered by a cop than a radical terrorist
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4 years ago  ::  Dec 06, 2013 - 5:15PM #9
in_my_opinion
Posts: 4,107

Dec 5, 2013 -- 12:12AM, Aka_me wrote:


Dec 2, 2013 -- 8:24PM, in_my_opinion wrote:

The question is thus whether someone who is an Atheist can be a believer. Have actually met one Iranian fellow who was a follower of the Faith in good standing and was Atheist. But that does not mean he was right, just that he was accepted or ignored.



would be interesting to ask him why he chose to join the Faith. we certainly won't see that happening with western atheists.




It has already happened quite a few times. In fact a great many testify to the fact that they have gone through an Atheist phase just before joining the Cause, usually after trying several different belief systems, then becoming Theists again upon their declaration.


In the earliest days of the Faith many Muslim background "Freethinkers" (that is what they called their Atheists in the ME&NA) became Bá'bís and Bahá'ís.


For both those of the West and those of the East there was a common expression of the feeling that they had finally found a way of believing in God that honestly made sense.


Not that all of them wanted to do so. Quite a few backed in by trying to disprove "yet another superstition". They found themselves "betrayed" by their own hearts, "unprotected" by their critical minds and called to the arena of service to humanity by their consciences.


Their path was not prophecy, though some resorted to their vast knowledge of it as a last ditch defence. It was usually looking to the future and seeing the clear road to human advancement that the Bahá'í Movement is.

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3 years ago  ::  Jul 09, 2014 - 6:24PM #10
Jupiter6208
Posts: 2,483

I must be Bahá'í then.

"A person who is nice to you, but rude to the waiter, is not a nice person."  Dave Berry
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