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11 months ago  ::  Jul 21, 2012 - 7:29PM #31
Kalzera
Posts: 258

"If, someone is selling murder, mayhem and terrorism with a quotation, song and dance; then, it seems a clear case, does it not?" -- Imo


I guess that's just such an obscure topic to have an opinion on that it surprises me. But I guess it follows right along with Bahá'u'lláh's overturning the Islamic ban on music in order to use music as a tool to praise God. 

However men try to reach me, I return their love with my love; whatever path they may travel, it leads to me in the end - Bhagavad Gita 4:11

"Knowledge is a light which God casteth into the heart of whomsoever He willeth" - The Four Valleys; Hadith
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11 months ago  ::  Jul 21, 2012 - 7:32PM #32
Kalzera
Posts: 258

And I discovered on Wikipedia - besides having photographs of Bahá'u'lláh's temporary residence in Turkey - that it mentions both 'Abdu'l-Bahá and Bahá'u'lláh wrote a bit in Turkish. It went on to say that most of the Turkish literature was written and disseminated by other Bahá'ís. 


en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bah%C3%A1\'%C3%AD_...


I'd find it very interesting to read tablets to Turkish individuals, especially since Bahá'u'lláh was in the city that gives home to a Patriarch and "First among equals" of the Eastern Orthodox church. 

However men try to reach me, I return their love with my love; whatever path they may travel, it leads to me in the end - Bhagavad Gita 4:11

"Knowledge is a light which God casteth into the heart of whomsoever He willeth" - The Four Valleys; Hadith
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11 months ago  ::  Jul 21, 2012 - 8:52PM #33
in_my_opinion
Posts: 1,887

Jul 21, 2012 -- 7:29PM, Kalzera wrote:


"If, someone is selling murder, mayhem and terrorism with a quotation, song and dance; then, it seems a clear case, does it not?" -- Imo


I guess that's just such an obscure topic to have an opinion on that it surprises me. But I guess it follows right along with Bahá'u'lláh's overturning the Islamic ban on music in order to use music as a tool to praise God. 




What Islamic ban on music? Muslims chant the call to prayer daily from the minarets and they play a wide variety of instruments. Umm Kulthum (AKA Umm Kulsúm) was one of the world's greatest singers of all time and she was Egyptian.


This article in Wikipedia covers a wide variety of outstanding and legitimate music practicioners including composers and instrumenalists, etc.


en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Umm_Kulthum_(singer)


It is like saying that Christianity bans dancing just because some dinky congregation looks down on it as a path to perdition.

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11 months ago  ::  Jul 21, 2012 - 9:01PM #34
in_my_opinion
Posts: 1,887

Jul 21, 2012 -- 7:32PM, Kalzera wrote:


And I discovered on Wikipedia - besides having photographs of Bahá'u'lláh's temporary residence in Turkey - that it mentions both 'Abdu'l-Bahá and Bahá'u'lláh wrote a bit in Turkish. It went on to say that most of the Turkish literature was written and disseminated by other Bahá'ís. 


en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bah%C3%A1\'%C3%AD_...


I'd find it very interesting to read tablets to Turkish individuals, especially since Bahá'u'lláh was in the city that gives home to a Patriarch and "First among equals" of the Eastern Orthodox church. 





The Ottoman Empire was more than what is now Turkey. So, the powers of the realm, whether or not they were Turks themselves, were responsible to communicate in its official language and locals with any standing used it, too.

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11 months ago  ::  Jul 21, 2012 - 10:44PM #35
Ironhold
Posts: 9,619

Jul 21, 2012 -- 8:52PM, in_my_opinion wrote:


What Islamic ban on music?



*steps in*


Some hard-line Islamic clerics have declared that any music which isn't explicitly prayers or chants is to be prohibited on the grounds that it takes peoples' attention away from their religious duties.


It's particularly bad in places like Iran and Saudi Arabia, where the hard-liners often have henchmen willing to enforce such restrictions by destroying musical instruments or smashing recordings.


So it's not just the odd cleric or imam with a bee in his bonnet.

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11 months ago  ::  Jul 21, 2012 - 11:41PM #36
in_my_opinion
Posts: 1,887

Jul 21, 2012 -- 10:44PM, Ironhold wrote:


Jul 21, 2012 -- 8:52PM, in_my_opinion wrote:


What Islamic ban on music?



*steps in*



You're not steppin' Ironhold, yer famly; and dontcha fergit it, hear?!



Some hard-line Islamic clerics have declared that any music which isn't explicitly prayers or chants is to be prohibited on the grounds that it takes peoples' attention away from their religious duties.


It's particularly bad in places like Iran and Saudi Arabia, where the hard-liners often have henchmen willing to enforce such restrictions by destroying musical instruments or smashing recordings.


So it's not just the odd cleric or imam with a bee in his bonnet.




It is the odd sect. (Well they're all odd sects, now!) It isn't any Scripture.


Just because someone just assumes or achieves dictatorial power and decides something is so, doesn't make it Islam; any more than a an odd Christian theologian spouting nonsense explaining the Virgin Birth as a misunderstanding, and that "virgin" just means "young woman", is Christianity.


They're not hardliners; they're fanatics with a penchant for micromanaging peoples lives and the populace will hand them their comeuppance once they finish mismanaging, become complaisant and stick their corruption right up in folks noses.


Just having power and being able to coerce isn't honest authority, never really has been, and won't ever be again (if it ever was).


Honest authority is the open willing compliance and obedience of pure and free souls.


It is free souls that go tearfully off to do better in the eyes of their Lord because they want God's goodpleasure for the sake of God's love, and not even because of a reward in a heaven, or fearing a punishment in some hell. It certainly isn't a hornswoggling cleric off a teetering pulpit.

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11 months ago  ::  Jul 22, 2012 - 8:00PM #37
Kalzera
Posts: 258

Ironhold explained what I meant by "Islamic ban on music." Perhaps I should have specified as the "conservative, ultra-orthodox Islamic ban on music"


Obviously not all Muslims are anti-music; otherwise I couldn't have two of my playlists on Spotify. 

However men try to reach me, I return their love with my love; whatever path they may travel, it leads to me in the end - Bhagavad Gita 4:11

"Knowledge is a light which God casteth into the heart of whomsoever He willeth" - The Four Valleys; Hadith
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11 months ago  ::  Jul 23, 2012 - 12:23AM #38
in_my_opinion
Posts: 1,887

Jul 22, 2012 -- 8:00PM, Kalzera wrote:


Ironhold explained what I meant by "Islamic ban on music." Perhaps I should have specified as the "conservative, ultra-orthodox Islamic ban on music"


Obviously not all Muslims are anti-music; otherwise I couldn't have two of my playlists on Spotify. 





It hurts to hear Islam being taken over by those to whom it does not belong any more. The true Muslims submit to the will of God. They do good, not evil. Murder is evil. Oppression is evil. Injustice is evil.


Goodness is hospitality. Goodness is generosity. Goodness is honor. Goodness is kindness.


Islam needs to be taken back from those who abuse its name and make good people ashamed to hear of their actions in that name. They need to know that they are not considered Muslims at all, before they stand before God to try to lamely explain their misdeeds. At least that way they may have a chance at redemption.


Please, join in pledging to uphold the true and beautiful countenance of God's Holy message and not the ugly, hateful and spiteful effigy the fanatical terrorists and dictatorial clerics make it out to be, by their ignorance and stupidity.

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11 months ago  ::  Jul 23, 2012 - 12:41AM #39
in_my_opinion
Posts: 1,887

Even if they could ban all music; they cannot stop the melody in the hearts of the virtuous.


They will never stop the mention and praise of God; no matter how hard they try.


Because God hears the hearts of all people, every creature.


God speaks to them and comforts them through their loving and listening hearts when they pray sincerely.


 


 


"Blessed is the spot wherein the anthem of His praise is raised, and blessed the ear that hearkeneth unto that which hath been sent down from the heaven of the loving-kindness of thy Lord, the All-Merciful.


Exhort thou the servants of God unto that whereunto We have exhorted thee that they may abstain from whatsoever is forbidden them in the Mother Book. Those who perpetrate deeds that would create turmoil among the people have indeed strayed far from helping God and His Cause and are numbered with the mischief-makers in the Tablet which God hath designated to be the dawning-place of all Tablets.


Say: If it be Our pleasure We shall render the Cause victorious through the power of a single word from Our presence. He is in truth the Omnipotent, the All-Compelling. Should it be God's intention, there would appear out of the forests of celestial might the lion of indomitable strength whose roaring is like unto the peals of thunder reverberating in the mountains. However, since Our loving providence surpasseth all things, We have ordained that complete victory should be achieved through speech and utterance, that Our servants throughout the earth may thereby become the recipients of divine good. This is but a token of God's bounty vouchsafed unto them. Verily thy Lord is the All-Sufficing, the Most Exalted.


Say: Fear ye God and commit not such deeds as would cause My loved ones on earth to lament. Thus biddeth you this Pen which hath set the Pen of Glory in motion within the arena of wisdom and true understanding."


 (Baha'u'llah, Tablets of Baha'u'llah, p. 196)

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11 months ago  ::  Jul 23, 2012 - 12:54AM #40
in_my_opinion
Posts: 1,887

Thought this to express the sentiment best:


 


"Thus do the ignorant people of the day, who have no portion of the radiance of Divine Beauty, make certain claims, and in every age and cycle inflict on the people of the sea of oneness what they themselves deserve. "Should God punish men for their perverse doings, He would not leave on earth a moving thing! But to an appointed term doth He respite them...." [1] [1 Qur'án 16:63.]


O My Brother! A pure heart is as a mirror; cleanse it with the burnish of love and severance from all save God, that the true sun may shine within it and the eternal morning dawn. Then wilt thou clearly see the meaning of "Neither doth My earth nor My heaven contain Me, but the heart of My faithful servant containeth Me." [1] And thou wilt take up thy life in thine hand, and with infinite longing cast it before the new Beloved One. [1 Hadith, i.e. action or utterance traditionally attributed to the Prophet Muhammad or to one of the holy Imams.]


Whensoever the light of Manifestation of the King of Oneness settleth upon the throne of the heart and soul, His shining becometh visible in every limb and member. At that time the mystery of the famed tradition gleameth out of the darkness: "A servant is drawn unto Me in prayer until I answer him; and when I have answered him, I become the ear wherewith he heareth...." For thus the Master of the house hath appeared within His home, and all the pillars of the dwelling are ashine with His light. And the action and effect of the light are from the Light-Giver; so it is that all move through Him and arise by His will. And this is that spring whereof the near ones drink, as it is said: "A fount whereof the near unto God shall drink...." [1] [1 Qur'án 83:28.]"


 (Baha'u'llah, The Seven Valleys, p. 20)

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