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Switch to Forum Live View Mormonism; 'Invented Religion' To Excuse Adultery
3 years ago  ::  Apr 05, 2012 - 8:12AM #1
Acts 28:22
Posts: 1,674
Mormonism; 'Invented Religion' To Excuse Adultery

Some Evangelicals have had their say, now it's the liberal press's turn to smear Romney.  And I bet this is just the start.  If anything, this ain't gonna be boring.
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3 years ago  ::  Apr 05, 2012 - 11:02AM #2
withwonderingawe
Posts: 5,380


Perhaps a little truth should be added to this. The girl mentioned here was pregnant  a dna  test on her descendants has proven it was not Joseph Smith’s baby. We don’t know whose baby it was, perhaps she was raped, but Emma and Joseph cared for the girl until they could find a relative out of state to take her in.  The fact is they haven’t found a single child born to Joseph Smith that wasn’t from Emma his legal wife. 48 wives is a little high too, 33 is the usual count but even that is iffy. There’s one woman on the list that didn’t meet Joseph until after she was suppose to have married him. 

Wise men still seek him.
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3 years ago  ::  Apr 05, 2012 - 7:38PM #3
Namchuck
Posts: 11,806

Apr 5, 2012 -- 11:02AM, withwonderingawe wrote:



Perhaps a little truth should be added to this. The girl mentioned here was pregnant  a dna  test on her descendants has proven it was not Joseph Smith’s baby. We don’t know whose baby it was, perhaps she was raped, but Emma and Joseph cared for the girl until they could find a relative out of state to take her in.  The fact is they haven’t found a single child born to Joseph Smith that wasn’t from Emma his legal wife. 48 wives is a little high too, 33 is the usual count but even that is iffy. There’s one woman on the list that didn’t meet Joseph until after she was suppose to have married him. 




Haha...


48, 33, what does it matter? The fact still remains that Joseph Smith was an over-sexed individual who simply took disgraceful advantage of position and power. When an American president, or some other prominent figure in society, does something similar, the whole world, including that of the Mormons, comes down on him like a proverbial ton of bricks.


While there is no doubt that Mormonism is, like all the other religions, invented, I don't think that it was primarily done so to excuse adultery. That latter is usually something that develops in a male-dominated system along with other abuses of privilege and power.


What is that Mormon scripture about "when men get a little authority..."?

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3 years ago  ::  Apr 05, 2012 - 9:24PM #4
Ironhold
Posts: 11,593

This isn't a debate board, kiddo.


Please take it elsewhere.



And as far as your allegations go, mind actually looking into everything in order to make sure that there's something to actually back up your claims?

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3 years ago  ::  Apr 05, 2012 - 10:35PM #5
Namchuck
Posts: 11,806

Apr 5, 2012 -- 9:24PM, Ironhold wrote:


This isn't a debate board, kiddo.


Please take it elsewhere.



And as far as your allegations go, mind actually looking into everything in order to make sure that there's something to actually back up your claims?




Nobody is debating. The issue is beyond debate.


And I have looked into it, thoroughly. I was merely stating a well-known fact.


Sounds like somebody is in denial. Wink

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3 years ago  ::  Apr 05, 2012 - 11:28PM #6
withwonderingawe
Posts: 5,380

I’m going to address this even though Namchuck does not belong on this board, shoo nam go back to the debate board where you belong!



Yes Joseph had a sexual relationships with some of his polygamist wives but it wasn’t what anti Mormons like to make it sound like.


Click on this and you will find a list which claims to have all of Josephs wives on it.


wivesofjosephsmith.org/


There are a few on that list which other historians have said there simply isn’t enough evidence to jump to the conclusion they really were Joseph’s wives and they have narrowed it down to about 33.



Joseph had this young girl Fanny Alger which I mentioned in my last post sealed to him in 1833, her parents were all part of it. The information for the next wife on the list Lucinda Morgan Harris came years later from a vindictive Sarah Pratt who offered no proof accept her own words and her information puts this marriage at least a year before Lucinda meets Joseph. Lucinda herself never mentioned being married to Joseph so I believe the story is false.


This means Joseph didn’t take another wife for 8 years, somehow that does not strike me as being over sexed. He didn’t start sealing other woman to him until he was ready to introduce the temple ceremonies which means there was a reason. A woman receive her priesthood or becomes a priestess through her sealing to her husband. Joseph needed woman who could act in the temple and this is how he did it.


Many of the wives were not wives in the sense of living with them.


Mary Lighter’s husband was not a Church member so Mary, after having her own spiritual revelation, was sealed to Joseph for eternity but not for time or this earth life. She became part of the Holy Order and was able to function in the capacity of priestess in the temple. Zina Huntington Jacobs had a similar story. After turning Joseph down 4 times she married her husband Henry B. Jacobs for time. But after a dream her husband took her to Joseph and had her sealed to him for eternity. Ruth Vose Sayers also had a similar story, living with her husband.


Helen Mar Kimball at 14 was sealed to Joseph at her father’s request. Joseph told her “‘If you will take this step, it will ensure your eternal salvation & exaltation and that of your father’s household & all of your kindred.” Some say she was manipulated by this great promised but she too became part of this Holy Order in which all the members received their second anointing so their calling and elections made sure.


This whole polygamy thing was a test like that of Abraham being asked to offer up his son. Those that past the test receive this anointing. Sarah Pratt failed the test and then later had an affair with John C. Bennett and was excommunicated.


Other than this sealing there doesn’t seemed to have been any more of a relationship with between Joseph and Helen. She continued to live in her parent’s home and at one point she even wanted to go to a dance. Her father had to remind her she was seal to Joseph. It is felt if she were living in a sexual relationship she would have understood why she could not go. She later married Horace Whitney and had 11 children.


I’m going to look at this next one because it is an example of how the antis twist things around.


Sarah Ann Whitney married Joseph in 1842 and three weeks later Joseph in hiding sends her a letter. Now the antis try to turn this into a love letter and the arranging of a tryst by cutting and pasting certain portions of it. She is also told to make sure she comes when Emma isn’t there, for it will be safe.


But a closer look at the letter says something quit different. It was written to her parents Newel and Elizabeth with her as a side note. They are being asked to come to get the “fulness of my blessings sealed upon our heads”, a few days later they were sealed for time and eternity. The reason they must come when Emma isn’t there is for their own safety. Emma is being followed by Joseph enemies and there is fear that anyone who makes contact with him will become targets also.


It’s like this with a lot of anti material so one needs to be careful with how much you believe.

Wise men still seek him.
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3 years ago  ::  Apr 05, 2012 - 11:33PM #7
MMCSFOX
Posts: 1,586

Iron , some things in life we simply need to laugh at because there is nothing to do about them Yet I would refer all to the writings of Elbert Hubbard who wrote:


“The man who is anybody and does anything is surly going to be criticized, vilified and misunderstood. This is part of the penalty for greatness, and every great man understands it; and understands too, that it is no proof of greatness. The final proof of greatness lies in being able to endure contumely without resentment.”


Also the Roycroft dictionary notes:


Muckraker: “One who sits on the fence and defames American enterprise as it marches by.”


 Some things and people continue to be simply laughable. Tongue Out


Jesse F.


*


“Though we travel the world over to find the beautiful, we must carry it with us or we find it not."
--- Ralph Waldo Emerson


 

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3 years ago  ::  Apr 06, 2012 - 12:46AM #8
moksha8088
Posts: 5,024

I have left two of Namchuck's posts since the remainder of the thread would not make much sense without them.  All readers should be advised that this forum is for Mormons and those inextricably linked with Mormonism like a couple of our posters.


For Namchuck and others, there is the Mormon Discussions forum on Beliefnet where they are free to express opinions on Mormonism.

Cry Heaven and let loose the Penguins of Peace
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3 years ago  ::  Apr 06, 2012 - 12:50AM #9
Namchuck
Posts: 11,806

Apr 6, 2012 -- 12:46AM, moksha8088 wrote:


I have left two of Namchuck's posts since the remainder of the thread would not make much sense without them.  All readers should be advised that this forum is for Mormons and those inextricably linked with Mormonism like a couple of our posters.


For Namchuck and others, there is the Mormon Discussions forum on Beliefnet where they are free to express opinions on Mormonism.




The policing of thought, for patently obvious reasons, has always been strong among the Saints.


As I said, polygamy in the Church is well beyond debate.

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3 years ago  ::  Apr 06, 2012 - 12:57AM #10
moksha8088
Posts: 5,024

Apr 6, 2012 -- 12:50AM, Namchuck wrote:


Apr 6, 2012 -- 12:46AM, moksha8088 wrote:


I have left two of Namchuck's posts since the remainder of the thread would not make much sense without them.  All readers should be advised that this forum is for Mormons and those inextricably linked with Mormonism like a couple of our posters.


For Namchuck and others, there is the Mormon Discussions forum on Beliefnet where they are free to express opinions on Mormonism.




The policing of thought, for patently obvious reasons, has always been strong among the Saints.


As I said, polygamy in the Church is well beyond debate.





Namchuck, quit breaking the local guidelines of Beliefnet.  If you want to express yourself then go to the right Beliefnet forum.  community.beliefnet.com/go/forum/view/34...  


I am leaving this particular post here in case I need to pursue this warning further.

Cry Heaven and let loose the Penguins of Peace
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