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2 years ago  ::  Apr 20, 2012 - 12:31PM #11
Abdullah.
Posts: 882

Apr 16, 2012 -- 11:36AM, Dudette wrote:


Hi Abdullah!



Hi Duddete,


my apologies for the late reply; been very busy lately and only had time to come on the net now... 


 


Apr 16, 2012 -- 11:36AM, Dudette wrote:

I'll be sure to be on the lookout for your thread on the reason why Jews didn't accept Jesus as the Messiah.



it's been right under your nose all the time Laughing:

Jesus 

Apr 16, 2012 -- 11:36AM, Dudette wrote:

What would defense of religion mean?




defense of religion is similar to defense of lives really, in that if people attack muslims for their religion, then muslims fight back 


 


Apr 16, 2012 -- 11:36AM, Dudette wrote:

You write:


It is a promise which is binding on Him in the Torah and the Gospel and the Qur'an.


Can I ask you where I can find this in the New Testament?



i'm not sure if such a verse exists now, but there are others that indicate the permissability of Jihaad; Jihaad means ‘to strive’ or ‘to struggle’ like a person may do in keeping himself chaste (for example). One of these struggles is in self defence. And Jesus preached this type of jihaad:


“Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace on earth; I have not come to bring peace but a sword.”  (Matthew 10:34)


[Luke 19:27] “But those enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them—bring them here and kill them in front of me.“


Towards the end when the Roman and Jewish conspiracy was reaching it zenith and the enemies were closing in around the Prophet Jesus, he ordered his sahaba (disicples) to buy swords and prepare for Jihad:


Then Jesus asked them, "When I sent you without purse, bag or sandals, did you lack anything?" "Nothing," they answered. He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. It is written: `And he was numbered with the transgressors' ; and I tell you that this must be fulfilled in me. Yes, what is written about me is reaching its fulfillment." The disciples said, "See, Lord, here are two swords." "That is enough," he replied. (Luke 22:35-38, NIV)


Ultimately the "Jihad" of Jesus (as) failed from a dunya (worldly) perspective because his followers betrayed him and majority of the bani Israel (Israelites) did not follow him. Another verse of their Bible indicates that one of the disciples of Jesus (as) used his sword to cut off the ear of a enemy coming to arrest Jesus (as), and Jesus then healed him back and did not fight perhaps because he realized he had been betrayed and that Allah (swt) had other plans for him,.




Ref: ummah.com


 


Apr 16, 2012 -- 11:36AM, Dudette wrote:

So you believe that Jesus came to change some things of the Law of Moses (turning the other chee" and Mohammad brought back the law that Jesus said was no longer necessary? Am I understanding this correctly?



i dont know how easier i can explain this Sister than as it was explained above, but i'll give it a try


basically, eye for and eye was an obligation in Moses' religion; in Jesus' religion, eye for an eye was abrogated and turn the other cheek was an obligation; in Islam both are allowed allthough none are an obligation, with the latter being the reccomended and better act; hope that explains it


i think the above is a good example of how the Islamic guidance is the best guidance of all, for it dont take away a persons right for justice [eye for an eye], yet it says if one forgives and returns good for evil [turn the other cheek] it is better Smile


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2 years ago  ::  Apr 21, 2012 - 2:14PM #12
chanceuse
Posts: 30

Hi Abdullah!


Goodness gracious, I couldn't get back on...hence the new name.


You write:


defense of religion is similar to defense of lives really, in that if people attack muslims for their religion, then muslims fight back 


Do you mean if a Muslims is physically attacked because of his religion or if the religion is attacked?


Glad to be back!

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2 years ago  ::  Apr 22, 2012 - 5:01PM #13
Abdullah.
Posts: 882

Apr 21, 2012 -- 2:14PM, chanceuse wrote:


Hi Abdullah!


Goodness gracious, I couldn't get back on...hence the new name.



welcome back! Smile


 


Apr 21, 2012 -- 2:14PM, chanceuse wrote:

You write:


defense of religion is similar to defense of lives really, in that if people attack muslims for their religion, then muslims fight back 


Do you mean if a Muslims is physically attacked because of his religion or if the religion is attacked?



the former and not quite the latter, but there is another form of defensive jihad, launched as a pr-emptive


the latter basically is implemented by a Musliim government against belligerence as a last resort, i.e, when all diplomacy has failed


here are a few links that will give you everything you need to know about the pre-emptive jihad


www.newislamicdirections.com/nid/notes/j...


www.islam.tc/cgi-bin/askimam/ask.pl?q=12...


seekersguidance.org/blog/2009/12/mufti-m...


in the past, the pre-emptive was in the form of a perpetual jihad, for the world was polarised at that time, such that if you didn't invade, you would be invaded.


nowadays however as international relations is primarily one of peace, the perpetual is no longer relevant

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2 years ago  ::  Apr 24, 2012 - 9:54AM #14
chanceuse
Posts: 30

Hi Abdullah!


Thank you for taking the time!


I've read the link:


api.viglink.com/api/click?format=go&key=...


The question is: Does it mean that we are to attack even those non-Muslims which don't do anything against Islam just because we have to propagate Islam?


And the response: Thus what is meant by the passage in Tafsir Uthmani, is that if a country doesn't allow the propagation of Islam to its inhabitants in a suitable manner or creates hindrances to this, then the Muslim ruler would be justifying in waging Jihad against this country, so that the message of Islam can reach its inhabitants, thus saving them from the Fire of Jahannum. If the Kuffaar allow us to spread Islam peacefully, then we would not wage Jihad against them.


I have to be honest and tell you that this is quite frightening to me.  I live in Canada and would like to take a look at this with you.  You probably already know that there is freedom of religion here so people of other faiths are welcome to practice their religion (as long as it doesn't go against our laws).  I would like your opinion on the idea that people of other countries must assimilate to their new country's laws.  What happens if these laws go against their religion?

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2 years ago  ::  Apr 25, 2012 - 3:58PM #15
Abdullah.
Posts: 882

Apr 24, 2012 -- 9:54AM, chanceuse wrote:


Hi Abdullah!


Thank you for taking the time!


I've read the link:


api.viglink.com/api/click?format=go&key=...


The question is: Does it mean that we are to attack even those non-Muslims which don't do anything against Islam just because we have to propagate Islam?


And the response: Thus what is meant by the passage in Tafsir Uthmani, is that if a country doesn't allow the propagation of Islam to its inhabitants in a suitable manner or creates hindrances to this, then the Muslim ruler would be justifying in waging Jihad against this country, so that the message of Islam can reach its inhabitants, thus saving them from the Fire of Jahannum. If the Kuffaar allow us to spread Islam peacefully, then we would not wage Jihad against them.


I have to be honest and tell you that this is quite frightening to me.


 


no jihad, millions of people end up in hell; jihad, they get saved; can you see the mercy aspect of it all? Laughing


 


Apr 24, 2012 -- 9:54AM, chanceuse wrote:

I would like your opinion on the idea that people of other countries must assimilate to their new country's laws.  What happens if these laws go against their religion?


 


there is one hadith [saying of our Prophet Muhammad [saw]...] that says it all regarding this Sister and it is as follows:


“There is no obedience of the creation wherein there is disobedience to the Creator.” (Musnad Ahmad).


but i'm sure, with the inquisitive person you are, that you will want to know far more about it so here is a link that will give you a deeper perspective;


www.daruliftaa.com/question?txt_question...


 


Peace Smile

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2 years ago  ::  Apr 26, 2012 - 5:04AM #16
Abdullah.
Posts: 882

Apr 25, 2012 -- 3:58PM, Abdullah. wrote:


no jihad, millions of people end up in hell; jihad, they get saved; can you see the mercy aspect of it all? Laughing




My dear sister, allow me to elaborate on this a bit


basically every bit of guidance Allah [swt] has revealed, culminates into one thing, and that is to save people from the hell-fire and make them attain Paradise


thus Allah has sent his guidance and as said in the fatwa, if people dont believe in Allah like they're supposed to, they will end up in hell for an eternity; the reason for this is that before our births in this world, when Allah had created Adam [pbuh], He took out all the souls from his body and gave them shape, then made them testify that Allah is only worthy of worship and He is the one and only God and that we should not associate partners with Him, thus from birth, every human has this testification embedded in his innate nature; that dont make him an automatic believer from birth, but the childs born with an innate nature inclined towards recognising Allah [swt] and Gods religion [once the message of Islam reaches them]; the former is recognised even without the message of Islam reaching them for it is in their innate nature and their is ample signs in creation that should help them on their way


thus when people associate partners with Allah, they bellie their innate nature; it's sort of like, when a theif wants to thief, his conscience tells him it's wrong


thus it's the Muslims duty to take the message of Islam to people and get people thinking about this aspect and many are saved


now if the baddies stop this message from reaching people, the purpose of Gods religion is defeated their and then, hence if Allah [swt] will allow shedding the blood of evil-doers in any situation, it certainly wil be this one; to remove the impediment of people recieving His message and thus fullfilling the purpose of guidance of saving the people


all that happens is, some enemy combatants get killed or taken prisoner; the country is freed up to Gods message, and then everyone can live in peace and security


Peace Smile

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2 years ago  ::  May 18, 2012 - 9:09PM #17
chanceuse
Posts: 30

Hi Abdullah!


Goodness gracious, I just received a notice of the message you posted three weeks ago...


So what happens if the country's law goes against the Shariah?


I have to say that it is not obvious what would actually be God's scriptures because pretty much every religion thinks it is right and anyone who doesn't believe the same thing is, in their opinion, wrong.  Can you tell me what you think about this?

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2 years ago  ::  Jun 02, 2012 - 3:59PM #18
visio
Posts: 3,322

May 18, 2012 -- 9:09PM, chanceuse wrote:


Hi Abdullah!


Goodness gracious, I just received a notice of the message you posted three weeks ago...


So what happens if the country's law goes against the Shariah?


I have to say that it is not obvious what would actually be God's scriptures because pretty much every religion thinks it is right and anyone who doesn't believe the same thing is, in their opinion, wrong.  Can you tell me what you think about this?




If I can answer to that, nothing hapens to the Law.   Certainly, however, something would happen to Muslim living in those countries.   They would have to adopt and adjust to the environment as an individual and a section/group of the larger community.  They would face great difficulties of fulfilling some of ALLAHswt's Fundamental Commands on such matters as Law of Inheritance, Marriages/Divorce unless those countries could sanction some of these Laws as legally binding to Muslims.   I understand that such provision is provided to Muslims in Greek.  Historically, it was the same principle that Muhammadsaw was commanded to apply to the Jewish community in Medina 1400 years ago. 

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